autodoctor911 Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Hi, I live in Austin and would like to see what it would be like to race with y'all at CTS in TPS. I would like to come out on July 12 and talk to some of you, and check out the cars. I am willing to come out and help out too, if anyone needs any help on their crew. I was looking through the rules, and it seems like tube frame cars are allowed with a 5% overall weight advantage and some extra left side weight for the stock tub cars. Is it pretty even racing between the two? Anyone care to comment on which they prefer, and why? I was thinking I would want to use a tube frame car, but swap the decals and drivetrain out to make it a BMW instead of a Chevy or Ford. Or, is the weight advantage on a stock tub going to make that the way to go. I don't really care for the design of the E30s, and I'm not sure an E36 will be light enough. I think the BMW m10 1.8 or 2.0L engine would be capable of competing with a ford or VW engine if built right. Has anyone been running one? Anyone ever try and run a Porsche 912? My friend has one in his back yard. Would be cool to get the air cooled weight breaks, without having the crappy Beetle front suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97car Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 There is a front running BMW that has been for sale out of college station always strong. What you want to run depends on how much you want to spend. Stock type chassis run good too. Come out and join us. There are cars around that can be bought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autodoctor911 Posted June 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 If I just want to come out early and hang out in the pits, can I just show up and pay for a pit pass? what time should I show up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top_shelf_12 Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 CTS usually posts an hour by hour schedule the week of the race and believe their pit pass fee is on their website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbys Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Come out to CTS next race I will actually make the race. I am new to this series but everyone has welcomed me in my short stint here. This is arguably the best series to race if you want to be part of a fellowship of racers. Everyone has been great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autodoctor911 Posted June 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I will look forward to coming out next month to CTS. If anyone has any links to ads for cars for sale, please post them here, or you can email me at autodoctor911@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top_shelf_12 Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 There's a classified section on here too, every once in awhile the four bangers pop up. I know there's a Mustang for sale from the Valley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford27 Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 Contact Jason Campbell. If you buy the motor for his car he will let you run it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloutpc17 Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 Not selling. If u would like to put a motor in it and run it you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tps48 Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 What? Have you run out of money all ready? Most of us make 3-4 races before we run out of money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloutpc17 Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 No but i cant get the motor i need on a week day. Kinda fustrating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autodoctor911 Posted June 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 I'd like to get my own car, but that does sound interesting. I'll give jason a call later today. Here's a car I am looking at for sale up in Illinois. It's a fabricated frame vega with a cosworth engine. It would need a single 2 barrel carb and manifold, but otherwise I think it should be legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilTPS Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 A few comments after reading your post and viewing photos about the proposed Chevy Vega: It is a nice looking car. #94 isn't available. #14 or #19 are available. However, the following rule would apply: “Before beginning any body upgrade, members must submit their installation plan and obtain approval from TPS Race Director”.1. Door bar plates would be needed per rules Page 3, Roll Cage – “All cars will install minimum 1/8” welded steel intrusion plates outside of driver door side bars. Plates will protect all of the driver’s body parts when he is seated.”2. You should check with Race Director David Mackey about evaluating the proposed Cosworth Vega Head to make sure it is or isn’t in the same category as the Esslinger after-market head and/or fabricated frame which would alter your left side weight requirement ie: Page 4 D ie:D. Left side maximum percentage requirements:54% - all cars using a full fabricated frame and an Esslinger ARCA or SVO after-market head combination55% - all cars using a full fabricated frame and an OEM head combination55% - all cars using an OEM frame and an Esslinger ARCA or SVO after-market head combinationNote: To maintain even performance potential between top-finishing competitors, TPS reserves the option to alter weight formulas as season performance justifies change(s). (This TPS policy rule has existed for many years).I. Engines must be in same family as make and model of car. Earlier or later model engines may be used provided they retain the original design concept (ie: Ford Focus allowed in Pinto or Mustang. Before purchase of replacement engine, members are required to obtain approval from TPS Race Director.3. You are correct about changing to a single allowed carburetor per rules page 4 and 5 H & I & J. And the note: J. Required Carburetor Modification: All inlet lines will use screw-in type fittings. Pressed inlets are not allowed. If authorized carburetor is not available, members may temporarily apply to TPS Officials for permission to use an OEM carburetor provided it doesn’t exceed the size limitations listed above.4. Concerning all regulated parts and components in the car, final approval would be in accordance with page 4 “I. Engines must be in same family as make and model of car. Earlier or later model engines may be used provided they retain the original design concept (ie: Ford Focus allowed in Pinto or Mustang. Before purchase of replacement engine, members are required to obtain approval from TPS Race Director. SOHC or DOHC heads utilizing two, three or four valves per cylinder are allowed. Note: Heads using DOHC configuration must be OEM and utilize OEM valve sizes and are limited to one Holley/Weber Series 5200 carburetor (32mm X 36mm).”5. Also, it is best to make sure the rear end in in compliance with page 5, para 5 B, “The differential is free. Quick-change is not allowed”. (The reason for this long standing rule is simple. Many TPS cars are FWD and are not available. To allow Quick Change to some, but not all cars would be very unfair).6. For any prior approvals, it would be very wise to check with DAVID MACKEY - TPS Race Director & Inspector - Phone 512/280-4869 or e-mail d.mackey84@yahoo.comNote: This post was written by: Neil Upchurch, Texas Pro Sedans Publications Office Director and copied to TPS Race Director & Inspector David Mackey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tps22 Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 there is no advantage for using a quick change rear end. your logic is old school. this series needs to upgrade to the times. parts for older cars are becoming more scarce. to upgrade to more modern parts you will need 14-15" tires, quick changes. most 4 cyl cars now days are standard 14 or 15 inch tires. if we want to keep up with the times we seriously need to evaluate these things and not just throw them under the bus because that's the way things are. these cars are becoming dinosaurs. most of the stock chassis are over 30 yrs old. also what about efi? just saying, rant over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top_shelf_12 Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 My parents had an old Vega, as a street car, it was a POS, never seen one on a track though but look at the Pintos so who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autodoctor911 Posted June 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 Well, one of the reasons I put this Vega on my short list is the fact that it is one of the few cars I saw with 13" wheels. I would agree that an update to allow 14 or 15" wheels is probably due, but in the particular tread compound specified for TPS(F60), there is no 14 or 15" tires available, even with a close compound that aren't too tall for most compact cars. the closest thing I see amongst any of the Hoosier short track slicks is a 400 or 500 compound in a 9.0/26.5/15. the 400 is a bit softer, and the 500 abit harder. It is 3-3.5 inches taller than the spec tire, which is about 1/2-3/4" taller sidewall, on top of the extra inch in rim radius, so would raise the car up 1-1.5" or require adjustments to geometry to maintain the same height. I think it should be considered, but not if it means everyone would have to change to 15" to remain competitive. Maybe allow 14-15" wheels up to 8" wide only with DOT tires at first, then try some different slicks and see how the lap times compare to the 13". I was also looking at DASH cars, but they went to 15" in the late 90s and I believe they are a little too heavy to make weight in TPS. On the Vega head: it is 16V and DOHC, so it has to be stock casting and valve size by TPS rules, which I will verify with seller, or by disassembly. Yes they did sell a stock 16v DOHC Cosworth Vega. It costed more than any Chevy other than a corvette. they couldn't sell very many of them understandably. It was based on a 300HP race engine, but only made 140Hp once they detuned it for the street and added emission controls, even with an EFI system that was pretty advanced for the time. On the TPS rules where it says: E. DOHC 16 valve engines use one Holley/Weber #5200 (32mmx36mm) or R & D Weber DEGES/DEGAS (38mm x 38mm) What is the precise meaning of the R&D? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autodoctor911 Posted June 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 As far as the quick change goes: I would think it more a disadvantage, than advantage, as far as outright speed goes. You can alter gear ratios with or without a quick change, it just generally takes longer and costs more without it. The quick change gears also sap some horsepower, which is why a lot of series are requiring the quick change. In a FWD there is really no difference in power losses between gears, since there is no direct drive, so you could easily have 3 or 4 ratios ready to use in the transmission. just have a 1st gear to get you moving then 3 or more different racing gears that are very close together. On a RWD the trick setup would be to get a road racing transmission with drop gears that can be easily changed, then run the more efficient non-quick change rear end. Those trannies are high dollar though. I guess you could also do like I said for the front drive though, you would have one 1st gear and 2 fairly high 3rd gears and one direct drive on a 4 speed, or even more close high gears on a 5 or even 6 speed. It seems weird to me that a quick change is not allowed, but any trans is. With any trans option, I could certainly find something that would work out better than a quick change, albeit at a much higher cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autodoctor911 Posted June 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 Hey, you think it'd be ok if instead of a little downdraft 2bbl, I could run with this setup instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilTPS Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 "Hey, you think it'd be ok if instead of a little downdraft 2bbl, I could run with this setup instead?"NO !Also, quick change is much more expensive than OEM.TPS rules have always stated the purpose of keeping costs down, which also has had the successful effect of not obsoleting cars.Does anyone disagree with these concepts?Note: This post was written by: Neil Upchurch, Texas Pro Sedans Publications Office Director and copied to TPS Race Director & Inspector David Mackey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 I SAY DROP A V8 IN THE FORDS ..LOL .......A VEGA WITH A COSWORTH WOULD MAKE US LOOK STUPID .....ONE OR TWO WAS RAN WAY BACK AT SHADY OAKS ,,THEY RAN CIRCLES AROUND THE V8.S ....BUT SINGLE CARB MAY WORK OUT .JUST HAVE NOT SEEN A COSWORTH RUN AGAINST THE FORD MOTORS WE HAVE ..BE ENTERESTING TO LEARN MORE ...AND OZZY .YOU HAVE AN UPGRADE CAR AND THE OLD ONES ARE BEATING IT .....THE 30 YEAR OLD CARS ARE STILL FAST .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autodoctor911 Posted June 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 How much is an "OEM" rearend? I think by the time you put together a good 8.8, 9" 0r 8" with good parts and full float bearings, axles, spindle snouts, hubs, caliper brackets etc. you will spend as much as a quick change. If you have a ford or even chevy or toyota, there are probably almost as many ratios available as a quick change. It just costs more to change a ring and pinion or center section than a couple of cheap spur gears. For this car, I would swap the center section on the Quick change to a more efficient Non-quick change with the appropriate ring and pinion for the tracks I would be running, then make any small adjustments to the 2nd and 3rd gears in the T101 trans with used Nascar 3rd gears, which have many cheap gear sets available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autodoctor911 Posted June 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 I SAY DROP A V8 IN THE FORDS ..LOL .......A VEGA WITH A COSWORTH WOULD MAKE US LOOK STUPID .....ONE OR TWO WAS RAN WAY BACK AT SHADY OAKS ,,THEY RAN CIRCLES AROUND THE V8.S ....BUT SINGLE CARB MAY WORK OUT .JUST HAVE NOT SEEN A COSWORTH RUN AGAINST THE FORD MOTORS WE HAVE ..BE ENTERESTING TO LEARN MORE ...AND OZZY .YOU HAVE AN UPGRADE CAR AND THE OLD ONES ARE BEATING IT .....THE 30 YEAR OLD CARS ARE STILL FAST .. yeah, but how much faster is everybody now than then? I think a modern DOHC Ford duratec or Zetec would beat the Cosworth Vega in HP. I still think a SOHC 2 valve with the bigger allowed carbs would be the way to go for the series rules as they are. a 32/36 will choke down any high revving motor to be pretty worthless. You need a torquey engine for the smaller carbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autodoctor911 Posted July 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Actually, After reviewing the rules, I think the Hot setup for this class would be a smaller motor. A 1600 cc would weigh 1672 with a stock tub. A 1600 air cooled with a tube frame would weigh 1496lbs and get to run a 44mm IDF, as well as ridiculous amount of left weight. Remember, adding HP makes you faster in the straights. Removing weight makes you faster on the straights and in the turns. I was looking at a stock tub Datsun 1200(110) also. it was upgraded to a 1400cc motor, but it was over 1610lbs without a driver or fuel and no ballast. I would really like to find a small engine car with a light chassis. I really don't want to go air cooled though, just because of the short engine service intervals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tps_55 Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 I agree with ozzy. I believe the quick change rear end rule needs to be looked at as well as the tire size. I know when I ran my pro truck they had 15" tires and cost about the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 The Vega has some front end geometry plusses that we used quite nicely back in the old days at Pan American Speedway in San Antonio about 40 years ago. The engine wasn't much to brag about, but we were able to get the Vega handling better than most on that quarter-mile bullring and we won our fair share. The key to the vega was spring selection and bump steer corrections. That's current TPS driver Bruce Mabrito (#10 Mike Knotts VW) behind the wheel. That's me hanging on for dear life on the passenger side and my co-owner Johnny Ivy waving the glory flag. That must have been in 1975... the next year we painted it red, white and blue in honor of the country's bicentennial. The year after that, the year PAS closed, it was silver... Same car with Mabrito, me and Johnny posing proudly with the Vega. I haven't changed a bit over the past 40 years... LOL Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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