Billy13 Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Sorry if this is the wrong place but didn't see a category for it. I am trying to decide on software to purchase to help us with setup and track tuning. I am looking for some input to make sure that I get the correct programs so it is money well spent and not well wasted. First I am looking at chassis software. I have it down to 2 Chassis R&D and Computerized Chassis Setup. Does anyone have experience with these? I am unable to find any kind of comparison charts to compare them. If I get these will the show the roll centers and such or do I still need to get a program like the Advanced Chassis Geometry software? Second I was looking at so tire temp programs to help me analyize our temps both at home or at the track to help with adjustments. I was looking at the Tire Pro program from Steve Smith. Again anyone have input here?? Thanks again, I know just enough to get us in trouble when trying to decide race time adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hray Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 This is one for Nick. We use one that Tom Taylor gave us, but I'm sure there are more up to date ones available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 1)The data entered into any software system has to be 100% accurate. When they say "center of ball joint" they mean the center, not the outside edge and not somewhere near the center. When they say effective length, they don't mean actual length. Stuff like that plays a huge role in coming up with roll center locations and motion ratios. "Garbage in, garbage out" applies here. 2) The user needs to understand suspension principles and suspension dynamics in order to understand what the data obtained from the system actually means. You can have the best suspension program in the world, but if you don't know how all the suspension variables work together as a system, the results are basically meaningless. This is where many folks get into trouble. They have really nice software and very accurate data, but haven't a clue as to what it all really means.They are on the phone to the software developer and/or chassis manufacturer just like they were before buying the software. Someone on your team has to have a solid understanding of how it all works in order to understand what changes are needed based on the data obtained. 3) Every car and every driver are different. No one size fits all. One roll center location might work great for Bubba, but Billy Joe like his cars with more body roll in his car. 4) Beware of software that is offered by folks interested in promoting their particular theory of roll center locations for instance. Beware of suspension/chassis programs that were designed by folks not in your venue area. If you run dirt, get software designed by folks with a lot of dirt experience, Same with asphalt. Same with road courses. Beware of software that claims to make your car handle since they have the right theory for all applications. I will not offer a point by point analysis or make a comparison between the different software products being offered today. But I will say that there is a very expensive package that is based on solid asphalt suspension engineering principles and has proven results over time. The software developed by William C. Smith is the software that many of today's better NASCAR teams utilize. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hray Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Darn Nick, I've gave you a perfect opening for a Nick's chassis seminar commercial and you didn't take it. Billy13, next time Nick offers his seminar----take it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 LOL... Rusty, Maybe things will line up right for a fall suspension seminar. For the past couple of years things just didn't fall together right between medical treatments that I intentionally held off until the off-season, family responsibilities, etc. No one knows all there is to know about suspension dynamics - there are just too many variables and too many ways those variables interact with each other to have a complete understanding. But... I do teach the 20, or so, most important variables and how they work together to produce a suspension system that is truly ballpark. And the good thing is that those 20, or so, variables apply equally to asphalt tracks and dry slick (or rubbered up) dirt tracks. With tacky or sloppy tracks, you're on your own! LOL I have no desire to teach bump stop technology, no interest whatsoever in teaching exotic shock technology. In fact, all the stuff I teach is under the assumption that shocks at all four corners are 50-50 shocks. Once the car has the springs it needs, the roll centers it needs, the geometry it needs, the weight distribution it needs and the other 17, or so, variables it needs, then adding shocks designed for that particular car will add probably up to a half second to the lap times. That's why I always bring in Chris/Gary Swenson for a session during the seminars - to explain how shocks can help once the car is basically balanced. Anyway, thanks for reading. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer61 Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 This is one for Nick. We use one that Tom Taylor gave us, but I'm sure there are more up to date ones available. If Tom gave it to you its probably DOS and on a reel to reel. LOL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 This is one for Nick. We use one that Tom Taylor gave us, but I'm sure there are more up to date ones available. If Tom gave it to you its probably DOS and on a reel to reel. LOL!!! Actually, I think it's on IBM punch cards. But last year he did upgrade to 5.25 inch floppy disks to run on his Radio Shack TRS 80. You still running that Trash 80, Tom? Or did you upgrade to an Apple II? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer61 Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 It will be a little bit before he replies. Morse code is pretty slow. Man he's gonna get me. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 It will be a little bit before he replies. Morse code is pretty slow. Man he's gonna get me. Lol lmao ... anyone seen that snail on tv ...bob your fired ..well gotta go tom is waiting ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hray Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Just to give you an idea, when Tom gave it to us, I had to convert it from OS to Vista. Now I'm trying to make it compatible with Windows 8, but I don't know whether it's worth the effort--after all, most cars don't use straight axles in the front anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer61 Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 They dont??? Uh oh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txtom Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 All comments duly noted. As soon as I get my main computer out of the shop, I shall make time for appropriate responses....... In the meantime Cory, ask Nick how he worked out the bump steer on Rusty's Flintstonemobile he raced after moving up from chariots. I previously sent you this information, but apparantly you did not see the smoke signals........ More to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hray Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 All Billy13 wanted to know was a good setup software, and look what this has deteriorated into. Tom, you should be ashamed of yourself! Nick, where's your edit pen before Tom gets a chance to fully respond? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer61 Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Tom, I was wondering what Nick was chiseling out on the front of that car. Thanks for the update. And you know I wont see thhose smoke signals when its windy out side. It looks like short hand. Rusty, Nick was using a sharpie on his screen the last time he was editing. Go ahead Nick, I know its coming. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modracer Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 How dare ya'll make fun of Tom like that! If he remembered how to turn on the computer he would defend himself so I guess I should do it for him. As far as the suspension program is concerned; it was designed for the first IBM computer in the early 80's so I don't think that they have those floppy discs anymore. I'm not going to say that Tom is old, however, he did work on Orville and Wilbur Wright's first airplane. But look at the bright side look of the evolution of change that he has seen...the transitioning from horses to automobiles, steam engines, the Ford assembly lines, the Colt pistol, prohibition. The list goes on and on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 John forgot to mention he survived the sinking of the titanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SASPEEDRACER24 Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 Heck I thought we lost Tom during the Crusades... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modracer Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 Good news, I spoke to Tom earlier in the week and he told me that he has his computer back from getting fixed and was going to get on to defend himself. I can only think of a couple of things that took place. #1 He forgot what he did with his computer and it is lost #2 He doesn't remember how to turn on the computer Given his advanced age either one is understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer61 Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 Tom called to have me let you guys know, he will be surfing the internet in his 46 packard as soon as he finds out where the computer guy hid the "ANY KEY". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperf Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 Just to give you an idea, when Tom gave it to us, I had to convert it from OS to Vista. Now I'm trying to make it compatible with Windows 8, but I don't know whether it's worth the effort--after all, most cars don't use straight axles in the front anymore. If you need to run DOS software on newer windows, I would recommend DOSbox. I use it to play really old vidoe games. Skipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 video games were not even invented when tom got his first pc . a .rock hammer and chisel and a date with bertha butt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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