drew Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Powerhouse.. I dont think we have met nor do I know what number you are...but thank you for joining our class and helping out.. we have a distinct class and i beleive for the budget racer that loves latemodels this is the perfect class... however..this is a very fast class on a few aspects from suspensions to motors and what have ya.. I have a leaf car that was built on a lm jig and i would like to think its somewhat compeditive..One of the downfalls in our class is not everyone has a dirt chassis. alot of old asphalt cars are in our class that are heavy and if not cut down to be lighter they are at a disadvantage.. I like our rules and if they need to be clarified then we should word it right and then have a meeting say at the first practice. To me they are pretty clear except the numbers of models may be off.. too easy.. so I agree taht if there is an interpritation issue, then we need to clarify with everyone but with the tracks input. I think ur rules help the heavier cars and restrict some of the lighter cars to a point. I had cooling issues until I built my removable nose with a tunnel to squeeze the air and have had no issues since. but your right alky does cool better.. I think the true reason taz started this chat was about the tech not looking at wieght to carb to fuel rule. and was trying to figure out how we can help the tech get to looking at them to make sure everyone is equal. I agree that we need to clarify so that we have a standard to meet and enforced so others wanting to move up know what they need to be compeditive. and still on budget. we do need to grow the class..its a very fun class and not a slow one to watch..and if we can get it so everyone has a chance to win every night then we would be onto something.. never know.. we might just start building limited late chassis like mine and making them affordable and compeditive.... we shall see. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hray Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 powerhouse, I really don't want to argue about the Holley carb designation, but this issue of designations needs to be clarified. First of all, the rules do not even mention a 3310 (I'm the one who brought up that List #). The rules simply say any 650 vacuum secondary carb. It just so happens the 3310 is the most common vacuum secondary Holley and the one with the most availability of aftermarket parts. You're not totally correct about the 3310 sizes. The first generation 3310's (List #3310-1) was 780cfm. It had nothing to do with whether or not it has a second metering block, it has to do with the location of the boosters. The List #3310-2 and List #3310-3 were the same carb except the boosters were relocated reducing the size to 750cfm. Holley then decided they needed a 650cfm so they used a List #3310-3, but put a smaller base plate on it. The center body is still the same as a List #3310-3. The only way you can tell what you have is to measure the base plate unless Holley added a prefix or suffix to the List # (and I'm not familiar with one). Of course there are other 650cfm vacuum secondary carbs like the ones Holley made for Ford. Drew, I agree with you, I like the rules we have. As far as carbs are concerned, I wish everyone had to run the same model carb, but then those without that model would have to buy the right one and that just drives up the cost of racing and I don't want to do that. I think our rules have worked out pretty good, and now that they've been posted we should all comply. If there are questions, let's work out a solution--and if we can't come to agreement, I'm sure Owen can resolve it. Or just let him take thgese concerns and clarify them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerhouse Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Hey Drew, I run the 5-0 car...we havent met I think because you were too far ahead of me.. lol !!! I really want to race every weekend with the class and hopefully will be able to race more often this year...I am hoping this new car will help me get a little faster. I am in the dark when it comes to chassis set up...I am a transplanted drag racer. The suspension set up for these dirt cars are hard for me to get a handle on. I am learning more every day. I loved my old car, but it was probably 20 years old and was getting tired I think. I felt like I had to work 10 times harder than the rest of the guys running up front just to get second or third place. I did win several heat races but I am looking for that trophy at the end. Almost had one last year, but choked on the last 2 laps after that darn yellow....gotta hate those when your up front. Im sure we will talk this coming year...Im am glad to hear that your health is better. As far as the rules....that dead horse has been kicked into dust now..So looking forward to seeing you out there this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerhouse Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 hray, it seems you have a great deal of knowledge about Holley carbs. I have been building them for about 35 years myself, I was wondering where you obtained such vast information about the 3310. I am always looking to expand my knowledge of carburetors and the inner workings of their circuits and changes to make them work better. I am always interested to learn anything I can from any source. You mentioned about the booster being relocated. Where was it relocated to and how did it change the CFM rating ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hray Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I think I detected a little sarcasm in your post. I started not to reply, but, my go to for anything I don't know about a Holley (and that's alot) is Jim Parr of Parr Performance. That's all he does is build them. If he doesn't know it, he's on a first name basis with the tech guys at Holley. He has forgotten more about them than I ever knew. The 3 things that affect the flow rate the most are venturi size, booster location and base plate size. That's why a Holley tech kit includes measurement of those 3. Other things can help, like knife edging the butterfly shafts, decreasing the screw head sizes, etc, but those don't make near as much difference as the 1st 3. Adding an extra metering block can help with fuel delivery (flow and emulcification) so it makes the carb more efficient, but doesn't change the flow rate as much as the 3. You asked specificly about booster location. The farther you can move the boosters out of the air flow or the smaller or more streamlined they are the less restriction of airflow. If you've ever been tech'ed by Jack Sandefur you'll know the 1st things he checks are the 3 above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerhouse Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 yes, it was sarcastic......I apologize for that.....Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Powerhouse... now i know! thanks and great to meet ya... Hope to see ya more this year! I know there are interpritation differences sometimes by human nature and i think we need to all meet up on the first so we can make sure we all understand the rules and how we need to help the tech guy be right about our class. if we can get it all ironed out...this class will grow big time....If you have any questions about dirt set up... alot of us have been doing it a long time and i think we can help ya out... see ya soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthTexasSpeedway Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 I have found this thread to be interesting and informative. If you guys will get together and agree on something please let me know and I will work with you. Thank you all very much... Â Ken hobbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Ken, Â It was nice to meet ya and look forward to all of us llm guys putting on a good show.. I dont think our guys want to change anything for this year because its kinda late. We had a gathering to clarify the carb rules. And what it boils down to is everyone wants to run alky no matter what carb they run... We came to an agreence on this and may need to update the rules for nxt yr with an understanding on a few things this year. .However there are some that still question what will happen on the tech pad with a few that have not really changed to the 37 rules because they were alittle different than the LLM rules for the sts guys.. So things like spoilers and brake calipers and some other things might create a confusion if not clarified or understood. I personally have no problem with anyone running the SUPR type spoiler or alky in thier carbs yet the tech guy may see differently. So I think the tech guy, yourself and our class need to meet up either on the 22nd for practice or before hotlaps on the 29th to clarify some things. I dont want to be the spokesman for our class but I am one to want to air out the issues because rules are rules and they do affect outcomes of races.. We all agreed that during the season we all will visit issues and the rules so we may build a more clear vision of our class rules for next year. The goal is to keep it at a budget racers cost with a high compeditive fast class. So if you would let us know what you think, when we can talk and what your plan is for us. Thanks again for taking over a great facility and giving us a place to race! Drew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMMAN Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 So just to clarify, I can still run the weight penalty rule and run my gas carb? I hope that this is the case and that the rules are not being addressed for the benefit of the squeaky wheels? Â Why mess with the carb rule that worked in the past? It is too easy to just make the car declare what they are going to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hray Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Drew, Didn't know the LLM guys were going to get together at the meeting. Unfortunately none of our teams could make it (too short notice and too many already committed activities). I agree there should be no major changes in the rules other than clarifying the differences between the I37 and STS rules. Those should be very small changes for one group or the other. Also, let's clarify the fuel and carb rule. Let anybody run whatever fuel they want without penalty. Let the 2 brl and vacuum secondary carbs run at the lower weight and any carb run at the higher weight. Put a 2" high sticker on the hood or air filter lid ("H" for high weight or "L" for low weight). That makes it real simple for the tech guy and the cost for the racers is minimal. Rusty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prJracing Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Don't know if I would call it a LLM meeting, but it was kind of a gathering. Nothing is really changing, we were discussing the gray area that was in I37 rules about which carb you could run what fuel with. No one talked to Ken, I don't think, but we kinda decided that alchohol could be run with whatever carb you have that meets the rest of the rules. Some things were mentioned for future changes, but, these would be probably next season and if everyone agrees. (these would involve input from all drivers and Ken be involved). And no, like Drew, I'm not and don't wanna be spokesman for the class. Â Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arob Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 The good thing here is there is communication.Just a thought here but I think anything you guys as a group can do on your own seems to me would help Mr. Hobbs at this point.Seems to me the carb and fuel thing is the biggest issue so maybe give 2 options and vote to have one rule or do what wray offered up.Looked to me Mr. Hobbs has a lot of detail on his plate like staffing and sponsorship among other things.Heck he may not have a tech guy yet!So what you guys can clean up on your own would be good for everyone.Keep up the good work with this class! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Richard...Yes...you can run what you have because its within the rules..if you want to run alky fine if not fine..the carb rule is in place but with the added fuel change....so really no change there.. The rest will be adressed for next season.. I dont want to be the spokes person but i will always be the one to start a discussion so we all can get it out.. Â Rusty, Â We had an impromt too gathering since we drove all the way down there for a few minutes so we maximized our time sorta speak. The only thing really outside of non power adavantage issues like spoilers and brakes..was the carb and fuel.. Everyone really wants to run alky no matter the carb as long as its within our rules which most said they were. So we all agreed you can run alky...2850 or 3150.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Thanks AROB... we love this class... and I think all of us will get it figured out...needless to say itll be a good show everynight. The fact that we all can talk without the griping is a huge plus. Its a great group of drivers and Im proud to be a part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Rusty I also agree we need to mark our cars with our weight so the tech guy can match the carb...fuel is and should not be an issue and we need to let the tech guy know that if we are on the pad after the feature so noone has any issues..Now I will say the tech guy has final say so....Between us...no penalty for fuel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cblgdc Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Lets quit the rules problems and lets see what we can do to help Ken run the track this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyJack Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 I say leave the rules alone this year but put sticker on your hood or hood scoop what weight you are running and lets get er done. jmo bobby jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Agreed Bobby.... Â Kevin...cant just let them totally go...we decided on alky for all carbs if thats what you want to run, but you still need to meet the carb to weight rule... everything else will be worked on for next season...just know on the tech pad it might be a different ball game so I would say get right motor wise at least... Â I motion everyone post what weight they need to be weighed at based on carb you run... Lets get this finalized and move forward... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 And i say that with a smile kevin. lol.. not trying to be any way but equal...I do know i am tired of looking at my car sitting on jack stands...cant wait to hit the track!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cblgdc Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Mine is legal per rules, just trying to keep class going by not out ruling some cars or trying to run other tracks. Just if those who complain the most would even show up to race and not try to change rules for when they show up once or twice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 I totally agree...well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hray Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 What about the spoiler? Are we running I37 or STS spoiler rules (I'm in the process of building spoilers right now - need to know)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prJracing Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Not sure, but I think it was stated above that the only thing discussed was the gray area on fuel. Everything else would probably be next season. Spoiler, well, don't really think there's much advantage at the speeds we run on a 1/4 mile track. It's so late already this year, let's not get to carried away. Seasons approaching fast, let's go race and have a good time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Rusty like Richard said, its kinda late but the rules say 8 inches. A couple guys have the supr spoiler...so i would say go by the rules just in case the tech guy says otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.