walt Posted December 22, 2013 Report Share Posted December 22, 2013 did I read it right ?? No Vortec heads period ?? or can I use them with a weight penalty//?? 194& 160 Valves.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt Posted December 22, 2013 Report Share Posted December 22, 2013 clarified shock and body rules alittle better. Let me know if a rule isnt clear or needs to be spelt out better. I'am reading No Vortec ?? can I run vortec heads with a weight penalty?? And what about sliders for leaf springs?? I didn't see anything about them .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielsen Motorsports Posted December 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 We are allowing them for 2014 with a 40 lb. weight penalty in front of firewall. The revised rules will be posted after xmas. We used last weeks race as a test and it worked out. Sliders and weight jacks are fine for leaf but only on back not front mounts. Front mounts will have to be in stock location on both sides with only 1 hole for leaf spring bolts no multiholes in front mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssracer21 Posted December 24, 2013 Report Share Posted December 24, 2013 you are going to allow vortec heads with the 40 pound weight penalty in front of firewall like south texas shootout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielsen Motorsports Posted December 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2013 Is this a question? If it is yes we are allowing Vortec heads with a 40 pound weight penalty in front of the firewall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justramit Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 does that mean any vortec head or only stock vortec? Stephan: Only stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justramit Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 does that mean any vortec head or only stock vortec? Stephan: Only stock so this means no bowtie vortecs, I don't see advantage to stock vortecs over other aftermarket heads we can run like dart, and eq. Why the weight penalty? Stephan: Most series and tracks across the country will not allow them at all except for in a Modified or limited late model type class. The previous 4 years we did not allow them ourselves. We are making an exception this year but will keep an eye on it for future allowances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justramit Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 does that mean any vortec head or only stock vortec? Stephan: Only stock so this means no bowtie vortecs, I don't see advantage to stock vortecs over other aftermarket heads we can run like dart, and eq. Why the weight penalty? Stephan: Most series and tracks across the country will not allow them at all except for in a Modified or limited late model type class. The previous 4 years we did not allow them ourselves. We are making an exception this year but will keep an eye on it for future allowances. I wasn't planning on running them I like my EQ heads, was just trying to figure out advantage when stock ones have 1.94 , 1.6 valves and limited lift. Guys would already have to spend more money to machine them for bigger valves and machine them to run more lift when they could just buy aftermarket heads that flow better for less money. From everything I have read anyways only advantage I could see was if they could run the gm performance bowtie vortecs. Just seems like all these different weight penalties are going to make it really confusing for tech man. I know I wouldn't wanna be him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielsen Motorsports Posted January 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Good point. When you register you will have to fill out a weight calculator form. You are answering yes or no to 6 questions and it will figure out your total weight for you. This form gets turned in and the tech man will have a list of car numbers and their weight they must be at. This will be done every race and as you are weight he will refer to the list make sure your good and thats it. Should be very painless for the racers and easy for our tech man. Also if you get to come to the banquet you will recieve a drivers package which includes a registration form and the weight calculator form. If you register at the banquet it will only cost you $10 instead of $40 at the track. So make some time to come to the banquet you have an award to pick up anyways, enjoy a good bbq dinner and the entertainment you wont want to miss. When you include the $1000's of dollars in door prices being given away and all your racing friends there should be a ton of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsracing3 Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Just destroyed a brand new motor on the dyno! This makes 2 now. Another Rocker Arm broke at the tip just behind the roller, Released springs keepers, dropped the valve, wiped out a brand new head, Piston and then the Block....... Back to square one. With $,$$$.$$ of damage! Why are we still being forced to run stock type rockers with an otherwise strong engine package? The addition of the roller tip does not solve the weak link in this type of stamping. Please release this rule and simply allow the use of good "stud mounted" Full Roller Rockers for all Shootout cars. The actual performance advantage is minimal. But an x-tra $100+ for durability is cheap insurance!!! Rule #10 ? Stock cast intake can run an unaltered Quadrajet. "Then see Allowances for intake options". Have just seen in real time data what happens to fuel mixtures above 5200 RPM with a Qudrajet on a stock intake. ITS NOT GOOD!!! Cured the condition by swaping to a Holley Street Dominator Intake. Using same carb. HP and Torque changed minimal at best. Only really increased the peak rpm where gross numbers where recognised by 300 RPM. However, the corrected problems of turbulence and unequal cylinder distribution along with the severe leaning noticed on the stock intake were gone. Conditions created by the stock intake CAN and WILL destroy an engine sooner or later with the higher RPM's. According to Allowances, ... Are highrise intakes legal with QJets using the weight penalty?... I too, have a very heavy car and can't safely meet the current minimums if desired. Without unbalancing the chasis. Also... Unaltered QJets. Does this mean the choke plate has to remain in place and functional? Or can it be removed and/or the Choke horn cut off like the 4412s I have seen run through tech? The rest of the new rules package seems very easy to understand. Thank You. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salvagemotor Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 just asking a question so please don't go off on me.... what type of lash are you leaving in your rollers when you are setting them cold ? and also I see a lot of racer think the largest cam they can get is better and then they don't like the outcome of broken springs and rockers.. I have been running the small rocker studs (3/8") with a solid cam and lifters and set them at .016" lash cold and after every race I re-set.. but I do feel your pain.. sorry for the bad luck will arnold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsracing3 Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Have spent a long time working around race engines at various levels. And I have seen exactly what your speaking of. Bigger cams are not always better! I tend to run a cam based on determining factors that are knowns. The cam of choice is a 480 lift rule stick. It is custom ground only to alter the lobe seperation. It uses a soft ramp angle under the curve. Which proves to be less demanding on other components. Valve lash is set at manufactures recommendations. WHEN HOT. Have been running this same cam grind for years. But always with Full Roller Rockers. And never a valve train failure of any kind! I now have had 2 as previously mentioned. We have already spoken with the manufactures of valve train components many times prior to this event. And I am aware that it is possible that the spring itself may have initiated the failure. Due to a loss of tension. With that being said... Even if the spring was failing and allowing the rocker to BOUNCE. A decent full bodied rocker would have allowed ample time to check the springs pressure prior to the rocker breaking. Manufactures of valvetrain parts will tell you that any component will break under certain conditions. Stamped rockers simply tolerate much less of these varying conditions. It can and will happen to other engines. I know of racers that have been wrestling with broken rockers in this class and in others. Some guys have been lucky!, and will say they have never had a problem. With our attention, they probably never will. Just not clear as to why we stick to this "stock style" of parts when we are already allowing the use of other performance enhacers that have little or nothing to do with an engines durability at this level. We need to keep cars on the track not torn down in the garage. We should concider this as part of developing the new rules? If it was the drivers saftey this would be an automatic implementation. Should be the same for the saftey of the engine. This rules adjustment would also place a little ease on teching. If ALL, were allowed to run the same parts under the covers. Hope this didnt seem as if I went off on you LOL! Thank You for trying to help...Always willing to listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielsen Motorsports Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I do sympathize with your engine issues. What you are requesting is what we have been doing over the last several years. Which is working towards a common set of rules for our tracks to adopt. Now within this common set of rules is two engine options A and B. Its your choice which engine option to go with, both have been proven winning options and both have been in victory lane. If your on the 10 inch wheel and tire setup then you must use engine option A. With the options that drivers have starting this year many have already changed over to Engine option B and the 8 inch wheel and tire setup. Option B is the direction we are taking the class. The two tracks are in charge of how long they allow Option A to hang around. Several still have plans to convert but will burn uptheir current collection of big tires they have first. So with a package that is ultimately going out the door in the long run and the fact that Houston has been running the A engine package for many many years we are not focusing on the weaknesses that engine A package has nor changing anything. The roller tip rockers were added by the two tracks using this package to help but under extreme conditions they are not a long term answer. I was in the same situation and had to bite the bullet and convert. Everyone will eventually have to but for right now we are not forcing you to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielsen Motorsports Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 One thing to realize is we want people to be able to race. We want cars on the track and not going through engine issues. If we simply did away with the 10" tire and wheel altogether and only had 1 engine option, then alot of racers would not be racing this year because of a forced change. Eventually we will have to for the betterment of the series and the tracks themselves but for now having 3 of the 4 tracks onboard with the same rules is a hugh milestone and something everyone should be happy with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyJack Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 wow, dyno testing streetstock engines! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsracing3 Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Yes!!! I would Dyno my margarita machine if racing it .Engine builder is now through testing engines for both packages A & B. Can honestly say... That I have found results that I would not have really expected. Several different cams, tried on both engines. Different carbs and intakes. 3 different headers. Based on all factors being considered for moving a 3200lb race car on G60s. Package__ is without a doubt my choice. Both Long blocks are Identical in build and cam selection is smaller than the max allowed.. Crossing fingers not to break any more rockers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielsen Motorsports Posted February 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 My only question is if you are on g60's why are you running those rocker arms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsracing3 Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Package "A" and a Q jet. with Roller Tip Rockers Believe it or not... Smaller cam and stock intake with a rejetted Qjet "NOT A MODIFIED" carb. Did remove the choke plate which made 0.0 difference. Pulling 15+ins vacuum. Is out performing a 530 solid lift cam, FULL ROLLER ROCKERS, with a Victor Junior and a good 4412. All parts I have previously run without problems. Engine builder stated before we even started what to expect with the aftermarket heads and other components under the QJet. And he was dead on. He missed the numbers by less than 2% in all areas he predicted. The very noticeable difference is not HP or Torque. Those numbers are very close between the 2 combinations. HP was 20 better and Torque 21 better both in favor of the Jet.. Its the torque curve and how flat it is above 3200. It steadily climbs to a peak at where I consider the Red Line for the rotating assembly to be. For what I could comfortably afford. No lightweight parts here. The 4412 sharply falls off a cliff at higher RPMs no matter which cam we installed. We have all been fast with the 4412 and not looking for controversy. Only sharing a single set of results. IF ANYONE HAS HAD DIFFERENT RESULTS? iTS TO BE EXPECTED. From his 45 years of knowledge... The 4412 carb is a good dependable unit. " That limits and restricts performance designed engines". It is no match for a 800 CFM 4 bbl even on a bone stock cast intake. Providing the heads cam and other parts are properly chosen and positioned in the engine. There is still the on track time to determine which is the real winner for my driving style. Ya Know....... How Fast I Can Go To Get To Another Blown Out Dirt Boss!!! Respect the rules and where we are headed. and Thank You.. Still not clear as to where it would put any one at a disadvantage to allow the running of Full Roller Rockers on all STSSC engines. It would only be a little insurance to finish the race running. *** Not trying to read into the rules*** However, do the Allowances for intakes and weight penalties apply to the QJet cars?. Is it cast iron intakes? ANY stock intake? Or weight penalty for Highrise or Aluminum? { Package A allows Qjet on stock intake}... Then followed by SEE ALLOWANCES FOR INTAKES in same paragraph. Haven't had time to Study, Study, Study, the rules. Forgive me if this area is not as grey as I thought I read. Just trying to help anyone that's not absolutely certain. Like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsracing3 Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Sorry about the confusion. If reading through the complete set of rules for intakes and QJets. Its clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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