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10 inch slicks


NickHolt

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THR is seriously considering running 10 inch slicks on the THR Late Models next year.

 

As many of you know, TTOPA is attempting to get the rules closer at the three TTOPA tracks. Obviously, a common tire rule would be something to consider.

 

I would really appreciate your thoughts about this, both pro and con.

 

Nick Holt

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I think that you will have to phase it in. There will be a large cost involved in switching the tires. If possible maybe a weight break for the 8". I dont think it will as big of a deal at THR instead of SAS.

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Which of the two type tires seem to last longer? What about the American Racers,maybe the old EC82 compound it is a hard tire.Went to a track in Utah and all the class ran them.The stocker used hand me downs from the late models,the track was like Longhorn only rougher.

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This may be a dumb question, But why not change the SA late models to 8" tires. Seems that 2 of the tracks already use them, and then TSRS could run with them too? It would be cheaper for them to change than everybody at the other tracks. Course, If I was used to running on 10" tires I wouldn't want to change to the 8's. Just an idea.

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There has been alot of debate about 10" tires on these cars and I think the key question is "Why?" The standardization theory doesn’t hold water. The two TTOPA tracks that run a late model class have already made rules concessions that facilitate cross competition. If a THR car wants to run SAS all they have to do is bolt on a set of 10 inchers and show up. Although I haven’t seen anything official on the THR side, I’m willing to bet that Brian and Jim would extend the same courtesy to a SAS car that wanted to run THR. What purpose is served by requiring the THR guys to spend $2000.00 on wheels and tires when they already have the choice to do so if they want to? If the answer is solely to enhance competition at THR then you might be on to something.

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well guys im not with a llm team im with the trucks . what i think the the ttopa track should do is buy the rims for the track and the driver can buy the tires for that track he or she wishes to race at and in turn the driver rents the rims for the night and this could help in the cost of buying another set of rims for racing at another track . in the long run the tracks would make out in the end with a larger car count when another llm call is off at another track .

 

 

 

louis

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jason if you talking anout me your wrong about me im all for all three tracks working together but you always have those who dont like it because of the rules ,when ttopa get the rules down it stone people will see thatr this was the way to go for ttopa.

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I guess it must be the old school phonics based education I got back in the 60's because I've re-read every post on this subject and can't find a single one that is against the idea. I also may be wrong about this but I don't think I've seen a single post in favor of the idea that was written by someone who would actually have to write the 2-3 thousand dollar check it would take to convert a car over to 10 inchers. So my question remains, what is the motivation behind this consideration? jp

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Ive got both 8"and 10" wheels for my car. Have run a couple of races at THR after the season was over and was required to run the 8" wheels, so i bought them didnt complain it was the cost of running those races.If TOPA wants everyone to run 10" wheels the guys with stock hubs and axles will need to upgtade to floters at least at SAS there is so much cornering force it even has broken the major manufactures industructable axles.We have had stock hub falures in the past as well espicially when the car is to tight.Realyjust for the saftey of the racers and spectators

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The #9 and # 25 THR/TSRS LM’s are against the 10” tires, and after talking to several of the THR LM’s over the past 2 weeks, most of them are not in favor of the change.

 

Also I don’t believe that the action would be better at THR with the 10” tires, sure the car on the outside would have more grip and would not slip as much, but the car on the inside will have better traction also. I would bet that the racing would end up worse if they go to the bigger tires. Right now, the cars slip and slid around the track and this gives the cars behind the opportunity to pass when they do slip. If you have all the cars stuck to the ground, those opportunities go away and you have more follow the leader racing.

 

Jack Mangham

crew for the #9 and #25 THR/TSRS LM's

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There you go Jaso, some THR drivers with an opinion. You have expressed your opinion and you don't race at either track so why are you surprised that somebody else might have an opinion? SHEESH.

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With all the additions that we have already made on our LM for the TSRS/THR

rules I would be for weight breaks and penalties.10" tires now whats next mini-

clutches and aluminum heads?If that is the case might as well build a Romco SLM.

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With all the additions that we have already made on our LM for the TSRS/THR

rules I would be for weight breaks and penalties.10" tires now whats next mini-

clutches and aluminum heads?If that is the case might as well build a Romco SLM.

Charles,

 

Nobody is talking about going to mini clutches, aluminum heads or titanium hubs or any of that stuff. I simply want to know what Late Model race teams think about going to 10" rubber next year at THR. That's all. The better the input we get regarding the tire issue, the better equiped we are to make good decisions.

 

However, if you want to start a discussion about the items you mentioned, feel free to start a thread here in the Grease Monkey section.

 

It is only natural to get concerned when there are discussions about rules changes and I understand that. But if we are ever going to get the LM division in Central/South Texas on the same page, it's time to start that process.

 

Nick Holt

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Nick, my question still remains unanswered.  What is the motivation behind the proposal?  Seems to me TTOPA has gotten everyone pretty close to being on the same page as it is.  jp

JP,

 

I believe the question I am asking here is straightforward. THR is considering going to 10 inch rubber next season and we would like some input from Late Model teams before making a decision one way or the other. There are lots of good reasons to stay with the 8 inch rubber and lots of good reasons to change to the 10 inch rubber. Therefore, I would like people to share their views about this before any decisions are made.

 

By the way, how did you come up with $2000-$3,000 needed to switch over from 8 inch tires to 10 inch tires? The figures I have heard are much less than that.

 

As far as my motivation to even consider going to 10 inch rubber, you suggest two possibilities -- better competition at THR in the LM class or standardization among the TTOPA tracks. I really don't see where those considerations are mutually exclusive.

 

As a suspension freak, I suspect that the 8 inch LM tires might be one of the reason that even properly set up Late Models running at THR slip and slide around so much. Do the 8 inch tires give up before the potential of the chassis/suspension is reached? Perhaps some input would help me decide whether my suspicions are valid or just my imagination.

 

And, as one of the founders of TTOPA, I believe that the more standardization the TTOPA tracks agree upon the better LM racing will be for everyone in the long run. This is one of the stated goals of TTOPA. All the TTOPA member tracks recognize that there will be some changes that need to be made to accomplish this goal, but that in the end it will be worth the time, effort and expense to make the LM cars more uniform across the region.

 

While I'm at it here, someone asked why not put the SAS cars on 8 inch rubber instead. I have set up many many cars at SAS in the past and I know that 8 inch rubber on the LM cars there would be a disaster. That track needs all the tire you can muster to keep off those steel and concrete walls.

 

So, JP, the real answer to your question is, I am seeking information from a variety of sources so that I can make an informed decision. And yes, I am motivated by both your suggested scenarios.

 

Nick Holt

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Nick,

 

Your question is indeed straightforward, I was just curious about the motivation behind it. To that end I would offer the following:

 

THR/TSRS cars have a number of restrictions placed upon them that are difficult to understand. For example, 108” cars are dead everywhere in the country except in Texas. Only 1 major chassis manufacturer builds a standard 108” car, Victory Circle. It’s a special order item anywhere else. 105” has been the late model “standard” for years. This coupled with relatively short allowable trailing arm lengths and penalties for under-slung rear clips means that substantial modifications need to be made to virtually any car not built specifically for these rules. I would suggest standardization in these areas would be less expensive and yield more benefit than tires.

 

Regarding tires, I was long an advocate of 10” tires on these cars but now I am not so sure. Lately I’d tend to agree with the Gural team, the traction limitation of the 8” tire might actually facilitate passing at THR. 8” tires place a premium on chassis set-up and driver finesse whereas 10” tires could take a car that was 80% on eight inchers and keep it stuck in the groove for 30 laps. The net effect I think would be less, not more passing.

 

To answer your question about the expense involved, you’d need 8-12 wheels @ roughly $100.00 per copy and tires to put on them. jp

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I LIKE WHAT CONTENDER SAID ABOUT 105 V 108 WE HAD TO DO 3 OR 4 WEEKS WORK PLUS BUTCHER A GREAT 105 CHASSIS TO MAKE THE RULE EVERY THING HE SAID I AGREE WITH NO REASON AT ALL NOT TO GO 105 THE REST OF THE UNITED STATES IS DOING IT. AS FOR THE TIRES I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HOW SOON THE 10,S FALL OFF BECAUSE IF YOU CAN,T GET TWO RACES ON A SET OF 10,S IT WILL BE A GREAT EXPENSE I CAN RUN TWO RACES AND WHEN I,M BROKE LIKE MOST OF THE TIME I CAN AT LEAST RUN EVEN A THIRD NIGHT ON THE 53,S TIRE WEAR IS VERY IMPORTANT RUNNING ON A BUDGET, BUT THANKS FOR AT LEAST ASKING THE RACERS THERE OPINIONS WE AT ONE TIME HAD NO VOICE IN THE RULES WE HAD TO ABIDE BY WADDY

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The Gural Team would also like to know about tire life. We currently get 1 TSRS race and 2 or so THR races out of a set. This is equal to about 225-250 laps, depending on the amount of practice.

 

Yes, the set-up would change. Springs, shocks, sway bar, and upper control arms are just a few of the things that would change if we went to the 10” tire.

 

This isn’t a problem for some of the teams because these teams have this equipment. Through trial and error, these teams have accumulated the parts. The problem starts with the guys that don’t have the equipment and can’t afford to buy the equipment. These guys have the one gear that works well for them, the springs that came on the car and one or two spring that they bought to try. These are the people that you would hurt the most.

 

Everyone would be hurt by the cost of racing going up again. If the tire life is the same, you run the 16 races that are scheduled for the THR Late Models, and put new tires on every other week, the tire bill for the year has gone up about $500 and the margin gets bigger with every flat tire and bent wheel. These cost and the cost of the initial change over are enough for some to quit racing and others to change to another class. Also the teams that run with TSRS and THR can’t sell their 8” wheels to help pay for the 10” wheels because they will need them.

 

In my opinion, this would be a bad move on the tracks part. Part of the reason for the car count is the price of racing. If you increase the cost, you make it harder for people to move up and harder for people to continue racing. Again, these are just my opinions.

 

Jack Mangham

Crew #9 & #25 THR/TSRS

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This is a great chance to point out something from another thread.

Why are the CAr counts down...

The cost of racing is going up .

It is not the big changes that kill a race team it isall of the small ones that add up.

What do you do with all of the 8" rims.

HOw do you make the 10" rims fit on your stock front clip ?

How do you keep your stock oem parts from breaking with the added force given to the chassis due to added traction of the 10" slicks?.

The answer:spend more money, buy better parts.

TTOPPA needs to think of ways to make it easier for people to stay in racing.

I agree with Chuckman. What is next..

WE change our tires to 10" we spend $16.00 per tire more. we buy all new rims. Spend the money to convert over to make them fit on a stock front clip.

I think people are forgetting one thing: most driversat the track today are paying for 90% of their own expencesout of their own pockets.

Some people have deeper pocketsthan others.

I for one do not see the need for The classes that run 8"tires to change.

If I want to spend the money to race another track that calls for 10" slicks I will invest in them, but I choose to race At tracks that call for 8" slick because I can not afford to change over.

 

NO for10" tires..

 

Victory Lane

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