NickHolt Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 It's not THR fault but they can do something about it. Each driver comes to race on THR grounds and i'm pretty sure every driver got a copy of the 2011 rule book. If a track doesn't punish the out of control drivers, then it will continue. Make the punishment worse if they have been warned numerus times or put them on a "probation period" just like nascar does. Like I said, there are those who think the solution is for the track to punish drivers. Several things make this a very difficult thing to enforce. Notice that I am not saying "impossible." I am saying "very difficult." 1) Assigning "blame" and assessing "punishment" in very ambiguous circumstances is difficult, if not impossible. In racing there a lots of witnesses to on-track mishaps, but rarely, if ever will there be a consensus as to who did what to whom. The only people who really know who did what to whom (whether or not they tell the truth about it) are the drivers themselves. 2) Race Directors frequently have to make judgements at to the "intent" of the driver and the severity of the infraction, keeping in mind the frequency of prior offenses by that individual as well as by others in similar situations, the "punishment" doled out for similar occurrences back as far as anyone has a memory. One failure to consider all of the above leads to more outrage, accusations of favoritism, etc. The only person who really know his/her intent is the guy/gal behind the wheel. 3) Most tracks don't have an "intent meter" to judge what that driver had in mind. Was it brake checking by the guy in front? Was it a spark plug wire that fell off? Was a tire going down? Did the driver miss a shift? Or was it intentional? I know who knows most of the time. The drivers involved know. 4) Most race team members (and their fans and sponsors, associates, family members, etc) watch their car and their car only for the vast majority of any racing event. They catch and have a good understanding of all the nuances that happen out there that involve "their" driver. They also have a detailed mental history of their driver, his past intentions, his temperament, his history vis-a-vis other drivers out there, etc. On the other hand, race officials must watch the entire field and have no way to keep a detailed personal of every driver out there fresh in their mind. The only folks who have this sort of detailed history are the people directly involved with that team. "You know Billy Bob is a clean racer and would never put Bubba in the wall." Or, "So-and-so had it coming because of what he did 10 years ago at another track." Or, "You must have seen the other guy blocking our guy all race long. Everybody on our team saw it." Or, "You must be blind." Or, "You must be taking money from the guy." Or, "You're an idiot." Or, "You have always hated our driver for no reason." Or etc, etc, etc. You may ask track officials to police overly aggressive drivers and they do their best under very difficult circumstances, but a much better way to control driver on-track behavior is by the top drivers themselves setting high standards for the rest of us to emulate. And maybe a discrete conversation between a regular offender and the top few drivers every now and then. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmbishop Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 "very difficult." 1) the drivers themselves. 2) the guy/gal behind the wheel. 3) The drivers involved. 4) Most race team members Nick Cleaned that so we won't have any misunderstanding reading between the lines. I made no friends when officiating or inspecting. Because I agree with Nick and always have on this one. a discrete conversation between a regular offender and the top few drivers every now and then Maybe the trail in the grass that leads behind the porty potties needs a little more wear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumper Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 That punishing drivers thing is more of what I call witch hunts.Its easy to snowball it to the point that teams quit.Also a black flag can do more to kill a race class than anything else.As tough as it is to race with the finances and hard work,sending a team home with empty pockets will make them re-evaluate the worthiness of this effort.The smartest use of a black flag I have seen (felt)was ar RGS.If you were blackflagged in the feature,your race was over.BUT you were scored and paid for that position the same as if you blew up or crashed or something.You went home with start money and points for however that position finished.I was so angry being blackflaggedfor 2 yellows that I thought were not my fault.I hate going home scolded and with nothing to show my lovely wife and kids.Later a fellow racer brought my start money and showed me points.Wasnt much but thats not the point.It was SOMETHING.What could it cost to give a guy last place money and points if he gets charged with a black flag halfway through the race??Give him what he earned,then kick him off. As far as regulating drivers,that should be adressed by the other drivers.Many kookheaded moves are just bad talent.As drivers we should as a groop try to educate the offenders.Let them know what they are doing wrong and reming them we all must share the track and sell a show.Every car is equally important to the show.In the rare case of a truly destructive driver,there are other options. Part of the blame sometimes comes from starting the fast cars in front.As they are slower,they start farther back.These guys know unless magic happens their race is already over from the start.So they make crazy moves to try to make up for the speed shortcommings.With the slower cars in front,every car gets to race someone and their skill improves.If you start near the front with a slower car your going to be extra cautious to hold your position as well as you can.I believe this is what many races are missing.A drivers job is to get the BEST finisf he can with what he has.Our egos have warped this concept I think. And for the real trouble making kind of racer,that trip to behind the bathrooms might be necessary.But dont bann people for defending their racing program.The bad apple is the one to bann. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer61 Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 i spend more time editing my posts because the masses whine and complain about feelings getting hurt. So I would say this, If ANY of these problem drivers had to learn to race in the 80s and early 90s era they would of had someone meet them in their pits with a jack handle. After witnessing a few butt whoopins while in the pits as a kid, I decided that not ruffling feathers was a good way to learn to race. But that was me, I didnt have unlimited funds or daddys checkbook to replace my car everyweek. In todays racing, confronting the problem drivers is strongly frowned upon because feelings are more important than $1372.85 in damage per car. Its the same in the rest of the country to. We dont want to say negative things to people as they might get offended. Heaven forbid we upset someone for being an idiot. So knowing this bit of info, some drivers and car owners have parked cars (of all kinds of classes) because of the lack of reprocussion for idiocy. Not saying its a problem officiating, or drivers not working it out among themselves, just that the existing system is failing. What amazes me is watching 8 cars on an asphalt track beat each other to death and 24 cars on a dirt track sliding sideways hardly ever touch. The rules were not much different, the tracks are about all the same size, so what do you think the difference is? I'll give you a hint, it starts with "R" and ends with "espect". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwracingmom Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 Thank you Cory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 What amazes me is watching 8 cars on an asphalt track beat each other to death and 24 cars on a dirt track sliding sideways hardly ever touch. The rules were not much different, the tracks are about all the same size, so what do you think the difference is? I'll give you a hint, it starts with "R" and ends with "espect". ....or to much NA$CAR influence(have at it boys).... If I worried about editing my posts I'd have to change my name to politicallycorrectracewriter.....And that ain't happening.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZIPPYHIPPY Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 I feel bad for some the THR staff. It's just why in the world would a driver want to screw their high dollar car up when it could of been avoided? When i put my car on the trailer the way it came to the track, i'm happy even if i didn't do that great. That's always a good night for me. I have been following this thread closely and have read many good points. If you talk to the drivers most of the issues fall back on the main thing that was changed this year....TIRES I am sorry but the treaded tire is not a RACE tire for these Late Models. Great for the other classes Yes... but the Late Models are chasing set ups and the feild is tightened up fighting Grip. Now making it Three wide going into turn three on the first lap. I could see where someone might see that as a little agressive but we have all been there at one time are another it is quite different looking through the windsheild. I believe No one intends on tearing their car up to go racing in the TSRS class....TIRES !!! Please NOTE this is my 2 cents don't spend it in one place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 Tracks should do what the "Monster Trucks" do. They have "Kill" switchs that are remotely controlled. If the powers to be see someone doing something like banging on the backside of a car orcoming back on track with mud or for what ever reason they can just hit a button and.........car no starty. If the drivers cant show respect then let the tower show them how. The fans dont want to see someone win a race because the driver knows how to bump someone. maybe they should just put those rubber bumpers around the car and let em have at it .........reading all these post tells me most of the driver in this class dont have the talent to be racecar drivers . it does not take alot of talent to wreck cars ......looks like too many two speed drivers who dont know what the middle pedal is for ...it slows the car down if u push it ....or they all need glasses ....... to wreck others and call yourself a racer is an insult to real racers who learn how to control a car and try hard to pass cleanly........wrecks happen ....thats a given .but most of those are accidents ..not a class full of crazy drivers with no talent ................ i love to watch tsrs races ...not for the wrecks ...as i am involved with racing for years i know the cost of repairs .................IF I TOOK THIS TO FAR WITH WHAT I HAVE SAID ..SO BE IT ... CUZ THATS MY FEELINGS ON DRIVERS WHO JUST GO OUT AND WRECK EACH OTHER ...IF YOU THINK YUO HAVE TALENT BUT WRECK OTHERS ..PROVE IT BY PASSING EM NEXT TIME ..GOOD LUCK WITH THIS CLASS ......THINK ABOULT IT GUYS ...IM NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO MAY THINK THIS ...NICK THIS ISNT A BASH ..JUST HOPEING THE DRIVERS SEE THE LIGHT . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRfan Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 Zippy, tires is your opinion and i respect your opinion. But I also disagree, tsrs has had this same problem for years. And the slicks just mean they wreck a little faster than they do now. And with that said I think the late models mods and trucks should be on the slicks, but the track is more racable with all cars being on the same tire. Track has to make best decision for the track not just one class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Moon Motorsports Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 Have to add my two cents.......I raced for 3 years in the Truck Series and if you want to watch lap after lap, side by side racing, that is the class to go see. The level of respect for other driver's and thier equipment is something you rarely see nowadays. I was brought up racing where it was a point of pride to load your racecar on the trailer after the race without damage or tire marks.....and we STILL gave it everything we had. If there is a wreck in the Truck Series, with very few exceptions, it is not due to a lack of respect but a genuine mistake or lack of seat time. Now that's not to say that sometimes it's not a wreckfest due to DWHUA, but I have seen and participated in MANY green to checkered Truck races. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmbishop Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 It boils down to this: Even if the tires are the CAUSE for squirrely driving - it's up to the drivers to adapt. Relearn your driving, and be respectful of each other while doing so. If the powers that be say the show is now driving on a watered track - learn to drive on water. You can't drive your car into another then blame someone that is NOT behind the wheel. Don't cuss the dealer when you loose the hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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