1-Crew Posted December 7, 2010 Report Share Posted December 7, 2010 I weighed my Dodge 1 ton and 48' fully loaded trailer on my home from Florida today and weighed under 26001 pounds. I will be speaking with my DMV and registration office on what my options are. Nothing is based on actual weight (unless you are overloaded). Everything is based on rated GVWR or GCVWR (truck and trailer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jracer98 Posted December 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2010 Nothing is based on actual weight (unless you are overloaded). Everything is based on rated GVWR or GCVWR (truck and trailer). that's true but what a "lazy" law. He got a ticket on "potential" instead of objective fact. Do you get a "bigger" ticket for speeding in a car that has 200 mph "potential" than you would in a hybrid Prius? No, it's going to be 63 in a 55 either way. Just a random thought... jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boernebullet Posted December 7, 2010 Report Share Posted December 7, 2010 Nothing is based on actual weight (unless you are overloaded). Everything is based on rated GVWR or GCVWR (truck and trailer). We do know it is GVWR, but it doesn't hurt to know and have it on paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KISS_Racing Posted December 7, 2010 Report Share Posted December 7, 2010 I have a long time friend who does Weights & Measures for DPS. He is also a racer... I know we are talking written law, so I am not trying to dispute. It would seem to me that you are headed on the right track in getting all your info together and I would agree that FACTS are what you will need in fighting these tickets. ( and a judge who has an open mind)I would include any pics you have from racing events that show truck, trailer and race car together. We use the F-350 w/ open trailer these days, but based on this coming back from California with truck, enclosed trailer, spec truck and bed loaded full we pushed the limits of these laws. Man what an eye opener! And talk about expensive.... WOW!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdogg4s Posted December 7, 2010 Report Share Posted December 7, 2010 I do know this just because it says not for hire and registered rv, it does not mean they will not pull you over and check you if you are pulling an enclosed trailer. Yeas ago someone was doing this, using their registered toter home for commercial use while that was un ethical he thought since it was registered rv and not for hire, he would be ok and slip under the radar and be able to beat it if he was stopped he was stopped dot'd arrested, vehicle impounded and license suspended. Federal laws can deam your race car and as a comodoty since you have sponsors or race for a purse no matter how small. At that point if you travel out of state now you are dealing with log books and a whole new can of worms. I am close friends with Harrison County Dot in Mississippi. They never checked race car trailers but told me if they wanted too they could run out of tickets if they decided to enforce it to the letter of the law. Now once those tickets get to court and you are standing in front of a judge its a whole new ball game. Law Enforcement officers and municipalities play games like insurance companies. Write a bunch of tickets see you bucks some will pay some will settle and some will get out of it. Its worth the gamble. I do know this if you run a ford F350 dually and have around 24ft enclosed or larger be ready, and read up on the laws Tx Dot, HPD dot, will watch you. Hey roller cops dont stop those buses that are in tow because #1 no money to be made cause how does an illegal pay a ticket, if you arrest them then the city will pay the tow, and have to pay to have the immigrants deported. In a nut shell its a rolling Cluster F***! Thats speaking from experience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmbishop Posted December 7, 2010 Report Share Posted December 7, 2010 Legal department told me that if you get $ from any source it COULD be considered a business (commercial) - even if operated not for profit (that is no profit potentail realized thus disallowing expenses that excedd income). THis would include sponsorships contigingencies etc. however he thinks there is precendent ruling prize money is not given to the car it's awarded to the driver - as he could make that money in anyone elses car that alone may not be enough to call it a commercial venture... (as in you don't have the expenses to make the money - you have them to make a chance a making the money - more like a lottery ticket than a business venture) stay tuned - I will be updating as I get more info back. In the meantime anyone who has gotten tickets for non commercial license - whether for commercial venture or weight issue PLEASE pm me with info. I Do not want to spend 2500 having my lawyer request an AG opinion with loose facts (no identifying info will be used unless you grant such with a letter of retainer etc.)! I am willing to do this because I do represent racers in tax issues and firmly believe there is an interrelation here with tax determinations and I LOVE to be prepared when the questions arise - makes it so much easier! (none of my clients have been ticketed though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Moon Motorsports Posted December 7, 2010 Report Share Posted December 7, 2010 It seems like towing one of those really nice 40+ foot goosenecks is the root of all the problems. If anyone decides that it isn't worth the hassle worrying about DOT weight limits or tickets, I have a 30 foot open trailer I will trade you for that will solve you problem!! LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KISS_Racing Posted December 8, 2010 Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 Here ya go... This was in Junction, Texas Oh and by the way there is some justice in all this. A DPS Trooper and two other sets of truck pulling trucks pulled over @ Ralph Fair & IH-10 near San Antonio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollercam Posted December 8, 2010 Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 Thats awesome Mark, I heard the officers let them go if they promised to bring back a huge clay rooster BBQ pit and a mexican blanket! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH22 Posted December 8, 2010 Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 I had a 48FT trailer and both combined gvwr was over 26,001. So I re-registered the trailer from 5200# axles to 4000# axles and that put me under the weight... Was pulled over and the Trooper knew what I did but couldnt give me a ticket because on his screen it showed the 'NEW" GVWR... BUT you have to take the old plate off the trailer (small plate with serial #, gvwr, etc etc)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robwhite Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 I had a 48FT trailer and both combined gvwr was over 26,001. So I re-registered the trailer from 5200# axles to 4000# axles and that put me under the weight... Was pulled over and the Trooper knew what I did but couldnt give me a ticket because on his screen it showed the 'NEW" GVWR... BUT you have to take the old plate off the trailer (small plate with serial #, gvwr, etc etc)... My understanding / interpretation is it's not based on axle(s) rating it's weight I was pulled over by a DPS trooper and ticketed for no inspection on my trailer I was pulling a Bobcat (skid-loader) that weighed 8600 lbs. was on a trailer with 2) 5200lb axles, it is registered for 9000lbs ....? He stated anything over 7,000 carrying capacity needed a safety inspection/sticker Previously I only had my gooseneck inspected (tandum dual wheels)24,000 lbs capacity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LM-RACER-20 Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 Actually it's not just the fact of pulling a trailer or the weight itself. If you race for money then you are a considered in business to make money like any other pro team. Therefore you need to have a CDL and have all the commercial tags, inspections and insurance. They busted my buddy coming back from Oklahoma for a IHRA National race. Everything went pretty smooth until the Texas DPS officer asked him if he made any money, and his reply was " A little " and the troopers next words. " Well then your a pro and we need to look at everything " He ended up with about 18 warnings. At least he was cool enough not to fine him for everything. From all the legal stuff he needed, down to the amount of fuel he was hauling. Over 5 gallons is a fine. We haul full 55 gallons drums to those races. So it can be pretty bad if the officer wants to be a jerk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRfan Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 so... you mean anybody towing a racecar needs a cdl? even on an open trailer? not too sure about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 Actually it's not just the fact of pulling a trailer or the weight itself. If you race for money then you are a considered in business to make money like any other pro team. Therefore you need to have a CDL and have all the commercial tags, inspections and insurance. They busted my buddy coming back from Oklahoma for a IHRA National race. Everything went pretty smooth until the Texas DPS officer asked him if he made any money, and his reply was " A little " and the troopers next words. " Well then your a pro and we need to look at everything " He ended up with about 18 warnings. At least he was cool enough not to fine him for everything. From all the legal stuff he needed, down to the amount of fuel he was hauling. Over 5 gallons is a fine. We haul full 55 gallons drums to those races. So it can be pretty bad if the officer wants to be a jerk. I was so hoping this thread was dead..... Johnny, can you point us to the part of the Texas Transportation Code that says that? I'm sure not aware of it, but that doesn't mean it's not written somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 They busted my buddy coming back from Oklahoma for a IHRA National race. Everything went pretty smooth until the Texas DPS officer asked him if he made any money, and his reply was " A little " I guess that will be good news to the Pro Sedans, Dwarfs and the Carts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Moon Motorsports Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 Actually it's not just the fact of pulling a trailer or the weight itself. If you race for money then you are a considered in business to make money like any other pro team. Therefore you need to have a CDL and have all the commercial tags, inspections and insurance. They busted my buddy coming back from Oklahoma for a IHRA National race. Everything went pretty smooth until the Texas DPS officer asked him if he made any money, and his reply was " A little " and the troopers next words. " Well then your a pro and we need to look at everything " He ended up with about 18 warnings. At least he was cool enough not to fine him for everything. From all the legal stuff he needed, down to the amount of fuel he was hauling. Over 5 gallons is a fine. We haul full 55 gallons drums to those races. So it can be pretty bad if the officer wants to be a jerk. I was so hoping this thread was dead..... Johnny, can you point us to the part of the Texas Transportation Code that says that? I'm sure not aware of it, but that doesn't mean it's not written somewhere. You can pick up a copy of the Texas Transportation Code at any L&M Bookstore in San Antonio, and I imagine any college bookstore in Austin. Should spell it right out for ya. Then carry it with you so you can discuss it with said officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorboy Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 Get an 18 foot open trailer then you don't have to worry about it, plus kids get to see race cars that they didn't know existed. Maybe they will follow them to a race track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LM-RACER-20 Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 OPen trailers dont work either. For carrying fuel, it is 5 gallons plus what you have in the fuel tank of the car or whatever you are hauling. Over 5 gallons and you need a permit to carry it. This goes even for the landscapers that carry extra gas. They just dont get messed with. It seems to be the worst when you cross state lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 OPen trailers dont work either. For carrying fuel, it is 5 gallons plus what you have in the fuel tank of the car or whatever you are hauling. Over 5 gallons and you need a permit to carry it. This goes even for the landscapers that carry extra gas. They just dont get messed with. It seems to be the worst when you cross state lines. We're talking about 2 different issues here. The initial conversation was about CDL requirements. The fuel issue is a DOT HAZMAT issue - completely separate from the CDL requirements. Let's not get the 2 confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmbishop Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 It seems to be the worst when you cross state lines. I am still compiling cites and organizing a flow chart - this one was pointed out by my attorney when I had him fact check some stuff - I overlooked the fact that the definition of commercial includes a Vehicle "used to transport property" with a "GCWR over 10,000 lbs when used interstate" (not for CDL but for compliance with comm veh - that is the number on the fender in two inch letters). Attorney informed me a letter of opinion would A) be limited only to whatever specific case facts are presented and would have to be submitted by a DA, Chief of Police or other head of a governement body or organazation directly representative of the "people". So we may not get insight into what the AG says or thinks. However we are still drafting a request just in case we can figgure out a way to get it done - and have it apply roughly enough to help our varying circumstances. Be patient - I have a target date of mid to end of January - juggling it in with prepping 18 offices in two states, training 186 employees, 3 appeals in process , 27 open exams (and closing the year for my companies) along with creating my own, policies, procedures and flow charts for my employees with out knowing what the hill is gonna do with the tax code! - but I only sleep 5 hrs a nite so get a lot done! I have rough outlined three different scenarios to create examples all the way from "let build a race car" to unloading in the driveway and putting it away at years end - covering licensing, taxes, insurance options financing etc.. Hopefully we can all build strong business\operating plans from them! What I have learned in just the last week is mind boggling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jracer98 Posted December 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 there is defination and compliance with the law as it exists "today".... and there is political action that can be taken to shape what the law is "tomorrow"... here is what they changed the law to in Florida. I would imagine that this was a combined effort between the racers and the tracks. http://laws.flrules.org/files/Ch_2008-179.pdf jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmbishop Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 [/i]http://laws.flrules.org/files/Ch_2008-179.pdf jay Cool stuff... A vehicle that occasionally transports personal property to and from a closed-course motorsport facility, as defined in s. 549.09(1)(a), is not a commercial motor vehicle if the use is not for profit and corporate sponsorship is not involved. As used in this subsection, the term “corporate sponsorship” means a payment, donation, gratuity, in-kind service, or other benefit provided to or derived by a person in relation to the underlying activity, other than the display of product or corporate names, logos, or other graphic information on the property being transported. Other than seems to me to be a killer - just displaying your sponsers name - you fit the exclusion. Sponser provides ONLY money for fender you get exclusion - sponser provides money for fender AND you get a percentage of sales or (or are sponser itself - advertising YOUR own company) you don't. Put sponser on TRAILER and you don't get exemption. Accept a 50 contingency from Racer Supply Company you may not (contigency is not just for displaying - it is for position as well). ??? Hmmmm other than that little bit of confusion this is exactly what we need to hammer our state reps with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmbishop Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 the Texas Transportation Code .....Should spell it right out for ya. Then carry it with you so you can discuss it with said officer. Yes - you can also print the code online - BUT the code does NOT spell it out. You can't pick one code section and say it applies - they all have to be applied interactively! Including the Texas Commerce code, The federal Code of Regulations, the Texas property code, the Texas Vehicle code etc etc ad naseum.... thats what the courts and lawyers do. You read one section that says your good yet over here another says you ain'T! Hence my decision to approach it in a flow chart manner (the same way my attorney said he would in a court representation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmbishop Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 I was so hoping this thread was dead..... Why - do you have anything to gain from lack of knowledge\planning? Such as budget increases from ticket income? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 I was so hoping this thread was dead..... Why - do you have anything to gain from lack of knowledge\planning? Such as budget increases from ticket income? No, just have grown tired of the nonsense. Carry on. My budget will be just fine regardless. But thanks for asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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