runninfords Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 dang i cant keep my hands from typing ............. i say if cody isnt going to put his head back on ..and jessie doent put his back on ..and get the lees to keep thiers off ..and get gb a tad slower ..come on gb ..join in ..then i say this class has won .and can be a better class for it ......... honor rules .only talking aboult heads here .this way the guys that cant afford it can still have a chance to run up front ...the goal here is to build car count or maintain the car count .and have a better show ..cuz no matter why you are racen ...you still have to put on a show ..no show .no car count ..no class .... i have seen some positives come out of this ....what say you .the esslinger head owners .. I ALREADY SAID IM NOT GOING TO RUN IT if someone eles does i dont care cause watch me that is one hell of a car and i will try like hell just like anyone else to run with them and most likely will with not to much work and a CAST HEAD and most likely if you are runnning with some one who has that much motor they will be pushing it so hard they will come out spinning tires so bad they will be in the wall or grass orthey will not let off in time to run good in the turns. You guys talk about all that horsepower but the fact is some are learning how to handle a car.Your intake valves are almost the size of my pistons.I cant put bigger valves because theres no room. It would have been nice to at least get rid of that stupid camber rule that Shawn added last year.Im glad I did not teach him more things.What I got for helping him was the oppourtunity to burn off the edge of my rr tire.Smoked to the core while the tread looks new. I cant believe so many are scared of a 60 year old man.The people who will suffer are the FWD cars that dont have a million laps.Heres what they have to look for. Removing the big heads will not change anything.Letting everyone have an equal chance to tune their chassis will. and gb im not scared of you i liked runing with you because you was the one to catch and i have said it many time before i dont care about the fwd and there rear camber rule and you said it right letting drivers tune chassis will help EVERYONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJ34 Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 I just picked up my new car need to do a little work on the body, put seat, and new seat belts in and I need to find a set of scales and it will be ready to go besides a new paint job and decals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ1796 Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 2 recent posts by GB and Nick about handling rules, the rest are all about motors. Just wondering which is the correct way to go in this class, dont have a dog or ride in this fight. Just curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJY08 Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 2 recent posts by GB and Nick about handling rules, the rest are all about motors. Just wondering which is the correct way to go in this class, dont have a dog or ride in this fight. Just curious Handling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJ34 Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 I belive it is handling as well that is why I need to us some scales to help with the set up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 I belive it is handling as well that is why I need to us some scales to help with the set up I'd do a suspension seminar in CC, but I'd need ten paid participants. Anyone want to round up 10 interested racers in the CC area? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumper Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 Cody if you really mean that then get that rear camber and rear steer ruled repealed so we can all tune our chassis.You had no problem outrunning me and vice/versa.Pappy outran me before the camber thing because he also got his mustang tuned up.Why would you want to run a marathon against someone in a wheelchair? I cant afford to buy a new rr tire every 2 weeks when the other tires last all year. Charley,my new project is between us,it does not affect anyone at CC.Your still invited to join if you want. Nick,we appreciate all you do for us but I dont think Thunder car guys can afford your lessons.Im not sure most could understand anyway.Our original rules were baised on things learned by IMCA in the earlier days.They found that regulating basic things and using a claim rule on engines they could run several different makes of drive trains.Unfortunately most south Texas tracks chose to not include the engine claim and the result is the demise of modifieds. In its heyday I heard over and over the question whats the secret to going fast in a modified?Everytime someone thought they figured it out everyone ran out and bought the latest trinket or setup even when they could not afford it.Kind of like that aluminum head thing or the secret tires Thunder guys are talking about.Some modified guys paid for stuff years after they left the sport.Of course the trick items did not make them winners.I learned the secret of fast modifieds and it works with all types of race cars.KNOW YOUR CAR INSIDE AND OUT<LISTEN TO WhaT IT TELLS YOU IT WANTS AND TUNE IT WHERE IT NEEDS IT.I watched the best modifieds in the country run 2 laps on our track,change a couple of shocks and/or springs then fly around our track.I watched one nite when 8 Winston Cup drivers came to our track and ran an exibition race in our local cars.They were so smooth they looked slow but turned better times then the regular drivers of these cars just 30 minutes earlier.The secret of going fast?Not a trick part,KNOWLEGE.Of the car,the motor,the track,the competetion,and most of all communication with your car.My best tuning part of my team was the vidio camera.I filmed only my car all the time,then watched it over and over,even slow motion to see where I was getting beat.Sometimes the answer was nothing what I thought.That crazy Neon was the greatest challange.I did finally figgure out what he had that I did not. Enough chatter.Its unlickly I will get excited about racing as a handicapped car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 ...Nick,we appreciate all you do for us but I dont think Thunder car guys can afford your lessons. Im not sure most could understand anyway... Racers in any racing division can't afford NOT to learn what chassis is all about. And don't sell your buddies short. I teach the physics in words that racers understand. I have a feeling you just don't want them learning how to go fast... In the second place, when a car handles right, you no longer burn tires off. People who have taken the seminar tell me that they more than paid for the class in tire savings in very short while! By the way, I now have a model front end that I bring with me to help with the geometry portion of the seminar. Here's a couple of pics. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumper Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 I would love to take your siminar.Your model does not help most Thunder cars however because of the McPhearson strut.The Pinto with the double wishbone suspension can do many things for improvement.I even talked to Sleepy Gomez from Stock Car magazine on how to establish roll center with the strut cars like my VW or the Mustang.He even sent me a diagram but in the diagram the struts were greatly inboard on top from what my car is.By that method the roll center of a VW is about 3 feet off the ground.Do you find this to be true? BTW only a dummy would want their competetion to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 Can someone give me the Cliff notes version of this theard. No offense to some of you South Texans, but it is hard to understand what you all are saying/tying sometimes. Nick, I know what you are saying. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 I would love to take your siminar.Your model does not help most Thunder cars however because of the McPhearson strut.The Pinto with the double wishbone suspension can do many things for improvement.I even talked to Sleepy Gomez from Stock Car magazine on how to establish roll center with the strut cars like my VW or the Mustang.He even sent me a diagram but in the diagram the struts were greatly inboard on top from what my car is.By that method the roll center of a VW is about 3 feet off the ground.Do you find this to be true? BTW only a dummy would want their competetion to improve. The RF geometry may be three feet off the ground at the instant center, but it's probably way out there to the left of the car. When you draw the line back to the RF tire contact patch you probably are closer to 3-4 inches off the ground at the centerline of the car. I have the diagrams that I hand out about the McPhearson strut. In fact, I hand out between 75-100 pages of class notes to my students. Camber, caster and bump steer all work the same no matter what type of adjustable suspension is used. Same thing with roll centers. You just get to the desired setting in different ways, but the principles about how they all work together are the same. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 nick ill pay 25 dallor a month .. would that do ..that is till its paid off ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 nick ill pay 25 dallor a month .. would that do ..that is till its paid off ..... I'm easy, Mike. All we need is nine more folks.. LOL Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam71 Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 Me and my son will come Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 he has special rates for father and son .......i think ..come to think of it ..how aboult special prices for oldtimers .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cRt racing Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 nick why dont you put how much it cost and maybe more people will decide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ1796 Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 Pappy mentioned once that he would like to attend Nick's seminar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 The seminar is $300 per person and if the crew chief goes with him/her, the crew chief is half price. I do accept payments - $100 each for the first three classes. Sometimes I work out a payment plan for folks like Mike who claim poverty, but they still have to pay the full amount. It's not fair to the others if I let someone slide. The first $100 is due a week before the first class so I can stop accepting students when the class is full. I limit the class size to 15 at the most because that's the only way I can keep eye contact to see who's getting it and who's not. A similar course taught at a university costs 10 times what I charge. And I don't use words that you can't understand like they do in college. When I designed the course I pretended my mother was sitting in the front row and tried to make it so that she'd even understand what I was talking about. I've been teaching it every year for 25 years now. Is it dated information? Nope. I don't like to teach the big bar/soft spring setup where the cars ride on bump stops and have to keep all the air out from under the car using trick shocks, screwed up spring rates and a huge sway bar. To me, that's teaching how to set up a go-kart. I teach a soft conventional set up and have been teaching it for years. Physics doesn't change over time. Oh, tricks come and go, but the laws of motion and weight transfer don't change one bit from one year to the next. The course is five sessions of three hours each. It's best to stretch the sessions out over the five weeks because this stuff takes some thought and after about 3 hours people's eyes start to glaze over. Just too much to absorb all at one sitting. Of course, there are some who come hoping that I have a trick or a secret setup or something like a book of "tricks of the week" and they get frustrated when they realize that understanding suspension engineering takes putting the "thinking cap" on and asking questions, calling me during the week about stuff they didn't quite understand, asking for a special tutoring session before class. Clint LaFont called me after every session last year to ask about this or that and he ended up winning the ASA A-Line Super Stock championship at THR. At the end of every seminar I always ask for suggestions to make the seminar better and the two I hear most often are that the course is too short for the all the material we teach and I need a working front end so people can better understand the geometry section of the course. Well, I now have a front end ready to go. One out of two isn't bad, right? LOL I give out class notes as we go along so you can take the notes home after class and study what we just covered. And I have a computer program that does the math for you so even if you flunked algebra all you'll need is the measurements from your car to do the math. I always get asked why I don't do this course for free and I always give the same answer. If I don't charge for it you won't think it's worth going to and you won't bother to show up for class if it happens to be your bowling night or something. I do charge everyone except those who have gone through the course twice. The third time is free. I have had people go through this course 3, 4 and even five times in one instance. You'll get tons out of the first time through, but the stuff that might have gone over your head the first time through sometimes makes sense the second time around. Everybody bored to tears yet? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 dang my eyes clazed over .reading all that ..i am the typ that has to do hands on ..telling me how to do something that complexed .wont get me any where ......now nick you would need a place to do this at correct . or would you just need a garage .. that i have .......does anyone have a shop ........plus i may have a 86 monty just ready for you to set up ..lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neon14 Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 thumper, I thought I finally figured out what you had that I did not lol! man that was alot of fun. every week it was something new, I dont think I took the same car to the track for 2 years straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runninfords Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 nick i said last year that i would go if you had one down here and still will and i have a friend that im sure will go maybe 2 of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebco2468 Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 nick i will go to your class when do you plan on setting a date after you have ten people ????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJY08 Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 nick i said last year that i would go if you had one down here and still will and i have a friend that im sure will go maybe 2 of them You buyin??? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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