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Michael & Mitzi

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I SAY GO FOR IT. THAT WILL GIVE ANOTHER THING TO HELP SET UP THE MUSTANGS. NOT ONLY THAT BUT WILL HELP THE FRONT WHEEL DRIVES ESPECIALLY NEW ONES WITH THERE SET UPS RITE OFF AND WILL SEE MORE COMPETITIVE RACING SOMETHING WE NEED.

just remember weight jacks only help you if your close on set up now .. ..we ran faster laps in the 90.s with half of the power some of thease motors have .with out weight jacks . . now the other question is .if you run a pinto typ chassis .in order to add wieght jacks that you can adjust with a rachet .you have to move the location of your front shocks ..so now you have another rule that comes into play .. plus stock typ of mounting wont work .you have to go after market eye typ .. is there a rule on shocks ..sorry i havent read the thunder rules in two years or more ......... now if your going to go to this set up ..your not really going to help rwd.s that much ..you will be helping the fwd.s get through the turns much better ..they use to run with rear camber ..that was taken out to help even the fields .so it been tried ..i say the best deal is get them all on one tire ..most rwd.s are running sumo.s .fwd arent ..there is a reason for that ...now i know gb will argue with me aboult those tires ..so what .try some of those summos on his car see what happens ..... i agree something has to happen .to even the field .going to wieght jacks are not the best or only answer ..and makeing the fwd.s handle better wont help either ... btw what is the left side weight rule . and i am not trying to step on anyones feet ..jmo. from years past ..

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I remember in my pinto days we added jacks to the front of the car. we put the shocks in front of the a-arms, it was cheap and only took an afternoon to do. your right oldtimer its not going to help everybody, but it will help some. as far as tires go I think the reason the fords run sumos so much is thats about all you can get in a 13" tire. on our neon we ran 15" tires for gear. it was just the way it worked out. and there are more tires to chose frome the bigger you go. but those sumos are a really good tire. and G.B. has ran and won on those tires. do you remember who was the first person to run sumo's at ccms?

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I remember in my pinto days we added jacks to the front of the car. we put the shocks in front of the a-arms, it was cheap and only took an afternoon to do. your right oldtimer its not going to help everybody, but it will help some. as far as tires go I think the reason the fords run sumos so much is thats about all you can get in a 13" tire. on our neon we ran 15" tires for gear. it was just the way it worked out. and there are more tires to chose frome the bigger you go. but those sumos are a really good tire. and G.B. has ran and won on those tires. do you remember who was the first person to run sumo's at ccms?

you i think ....you cAN GET SUMO.S IN 14 AND 15 INCH ..

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most of the fords run 13" wheels. not all of them but most of them. they dont make much for 13s. the rules were open on wheel size and we jumped on it and we got a better tire selection. also for some good prices, I think dad paid $55 for some dunlops from tire rack on sale in 2006. it turned out to be a good tire for us. I guess my point is if the tires are that much better then move to a larger wheel. I know its alot of work and money to make that big of change but once its done its done. take advantage of the rules.

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;) Okay thunders

We're not leaving you out either...what do yo uthink of letting the fwd's have their rear camber back but allowing rwd to have weight jacks all around..not an expesive upgrade but some work will keep up with those pesky neons and maybe take a closer look at GB's back bumper.

 

Great change Mike. It will promote better handling for both front and rear wheel drives and is very inexpensive. It will also give some the ability to learn more about setup.

 

 

 

RESTRICTOR PLATES

 

thats funny Don. :lol:

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ratdaddy - FOR THE RECORD ... Restrictor plates have not been required in Texas Pro Sedans Rules for almost two years. They are not required in 2009 TPS Rules either.

 

Weight jackers have been allowed on TPS cars for most of the 34 years that TPS has been racing. Weight jackers allowance will put the CC Speedway Thunders on a more equal footing with TPS than before.

 

btw: 2009 Texas Pro Sedans Rules are posted on www.TexasProSedans.com or by contacting me.

 

Neil Upchurch

Race & Administrative Director

Texas Pro Sedans

 

210/655-3222 office

 

neilupchurch@sbcglobal.net

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just let them have racing springs on the rwd cars b/c the neons have stock springs

SOME ALREADY HAVE RACEN SPRINGS ..WITH THE ECONOMY THE WAY IT IS .I KEEP WONDERING WHY THE TRACK AND OR DRIVERS .WANT TO ADD A SPEND ON TO THE RWD.S JUST TO CATCH UP WITH TWO CARS ..WHEN 5 .6 .8 OR SO CARS ARE CLOSE TOGETHER NOW .YEP RWD.S... YES THE BETTER RACES ARE BETWEEN THE RWD,S THE TWO FWD,S ARE BY THEMSELFS .. THIS ISNT AN ATTACK .I LIKE BOTH FWD DRIVERS ... COMMON SENSE WILL TELL YOU WHICH WAY TO GO ..SO I SAY SLOW THEM DOWN .MUCH CHEAPER .IF THEY ARE NOT WILLING TO ADJUST . PARK EM . YOU HAVE A PURTY GOOD THUNDER CLASS .THE ONLY TRACK TO HAVE ONE WITH THE CAR COUNT AS IT IS .LARGER THAN ALL OTHERS IN TEXAS FOR WHAT IT IS .... THIS ADJUST TO AND SPEND MONEY TO CATCH THE FWD.S IS GETTING OLD .ITS BEEN GOING ON FOR 17 YEARS AT CC .I THINK IS HIGH TIME THE FWD.S HAVE TO ADJUST . SEEING ITS ONLY TWO OR THREE FWD.S VERSES ALL THE OTHERS .. I SAID IT BEFORE .WEIGHT JACKS ARE ONLY GOING TO HELP YOU IF .YOUR CARS IS CLOSE NOW .IF NOT YOU WILL HAVE TO BUY SPRINGS AND SUCH TO GO WITH THEM ..AND IN SOME CASES SHOCKS. THE STREET TIRES YOU RUN WILL ONLY EXCEPT WEIGHT JACKS TO A VERY MIN OF HELP ..NOT ENOUGH TO DO WHAT YOU WOULD HOPE FOR .... SO I THINK ITS GOING THE WRONG DIRECTION HERE . BTW FOR MY TWO CENTS WORTH . WE HAVE A CAR OR TWO THAT MAY RACE AT CC NEXT YEAR .. WE CAN GO EITHER WAY WITH THIS . I PREFER TO KEEP IT CHEAPER ...

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This is intresting but seems familiar.

First.this FWD thing has been going on for a long while.I remember in 95 everyone was saying the same thing but my brother brought a Toyota to the fray and nobody told him.Not only did he win races he set the record time at the year end show.And thats before camber restrictions weight penalitys or open diff for FWD.Fact is he had a good car and could drive.

Now look at this camber thing.Last year I told you guys it will not slow down the FWD cars.As proof,this year I broke the record without the help of camber or rear steer.I said then it would hurt the RWD cars the most because they need it most to curb push in center.My brothers Toyota did have rear steer,not a lot but it doesnt take much.Again the Ford guys shot themselves in the foot.The camber thing was last years way of "equalizeing the competetion".It didnt make any difference just like the 280#s of lead I had to add or the open differential or the all working foreward gears Pappy fought for but never raced anyway.The curious part is what will Ford guys think of this year to get those cars up to a stock FWD.Lets not forget 3 or 4 of the Fords are already showing they have the needed speed.I think the 2008 champion was a RWD as well as 2nd and 3rd.

On the tire deal Will is correct about the gear thing.There are not a lot of choices for gear ratio on FWD cars.If we go to a single tire it needs to be a 25" tall tire eather 15 or 16" wheel.The Sumos are wider than the 15" size.I do have and use the 13" Sumos,usually for heat races or short runs because it turns my engine over 8000 rpm.The taller Cofabs keep it around 7400.

Oldtimer says if you cant beat them,run them off.That goes against what racing is all about.I did race a RWD car,a Karman Ghia until the rules made it not possible to use anymore.More of this equal thing.

Now heres an intresting note.HMP and Thunderhill are adding ministocks to their program in 09.I37 is considering it.They are leaning tward ALL FWD cars,no RWDs at all.Why?Their concern is to make inexpensive cars.The real fact is a Mustang or a Pinto is EXPENSIVE to race just like a VW air cooled is.The FWD cars have most of whats needed built by the factory.You can have 2 front running FWD cars for the price of 1 Ford.I would hate to make rediculious protective rules that would prevent cars from other tracks,THR,HMP,I37 from comming to CCMS.BTW,IMCA,the most successful sanctioning body in Texas also has a 4 cyl class called Sport Compacts and guyss what?All front wheel drive cars.How lomg do you want to live in the past?

Getting back to this topic,it doesnt matter to me what you give the Fords.I even said give Oldtimer a V8.They want weight jacks,fine.The only advantage is faster set up time.It takes longer to tune a chassis without adjustments but the end result is the same.I have no problem with WB shocks as ling as they are steel and not adjustable.If fact I was the one that got the Fords a big carburator and racing gas so you would quit blowing head gaskets.I dont care what the Fords get,just quit trying to tie my hands.Only a FWD owner knows what would slow down a FWD and there not talking.Oldtimer,you want cheaper cars,build a modern car.The eara of the flathead was over a long time ago.How bout a Focus or twin cam Escort?You remind me of a guy that complains about the price of prime rib.Just eat hamburger.

Ministocks at CC Speedway need to seriously consider where to draw cars from if they ever want a big 4 cyl show.Watch the other tracks,dont do anything to keep them away.JMO.

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As usual, Thumper states his case well. Legislating any class of race cars taking into account the relative sophistication of the teams participating in the class is not the best idea.

 

Nick

so you prefer to keep adding on to aboult 6 to 8 cars over two cars ..hum ..instead of working to slow two cars down .you want all others to pay up to catch up ..im pointing out some things .and if those drivers want to add all of that ..then go ahead .but they are not going to catch gb when he is getting what he wants ..if gb didnt want it .he would say so .but i know gb he is in heaven . gb as for you not talking aboult slowing your car down .that in your history would be a first if you did ..lol ...the only dog i have is if your going to try and help[ the rwd catch up .. then dont let fwd have anything . fwd are lapping the..field as it is ..it took

tps along time to get both cars purty close ..the first time i have really injoyed what neil did with the rules .and seems he as others arehappy aswell..GB

as for haveing more fwd.s then rwd.s you better look again . tps and cc rwd out number fwd.s ..red river .aboult even ..i can tell you for sure you will see one or two of our cars racen at cc next year

more so than last ..so if everyone wants wieght jacks and such .fine with me . gb if youRcar is stock ill eat my hat .lol .anyway i through some things out there .now i will back out and let you guys decide what you want to do .we will go either way ..

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OT... all I did was echo GB's thought that rules for any class should not be based on who the teams are or their level of proficiency. That's it. If you want to read something more into that, then that's up to you.

 

Have fun!

 

Nick

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OT... all I did was echo GB's thought that rules for any class should not be based on who the teams are or their level of proficiency. That's it. If you want to read something more into that, then that's up to you.

 

Have fun!

 

Nick

yep we plan on it ..haveing some fun ..we will run what we have .weight jacks or not ..i have to admit weight jacks are a plus aslong as your car is close .but not the answer alone . if you give cars something to help out in catching the other two cars . thats fine .if you at the same time give the faster cars help in getting faster .then why change the rules ... both getting something .. defeats the whole purpose .....over and out ..

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I copied this from Texas Thunder rules.

 

Spring Spacers OK. Springs may be aftermarket as long as they properly fit in the original spring perches without any modifications

 

 

Looks like you are already allowed to jack weight. So how is screw jacks going to make your car faster. It will make adjustments faster.

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Let me try to explain this in oltimer language

Loke dis reer steer an cumbet ting dont mater to FWD carz.I waz in flaver to let dem put adgustuble spirngs and no plus to the FWD.It don mattr iffin I got reer stuff or no.I efen sade give yu a V8 an It wernt no joke.Odder FWD carz mite get more bettr iffin dey had et butt it don madder to me.I now youse wants penultys fer FWD so youse kan bete dem lik you does at Pro Sadens rases.Butt yous firstest gotta bete dem fastest Fords dad is alrady fast.

Ize wandering wat youse wold do to get dis clause more carz?Get mor cheeper carz or mor costy carz?Wat iz cheeper to raze,FWD or RWD?Alzo wat does youse wanna me to doze to gat youse more betur?Tak ov 1 sprk plog?Puss youse arond?Rite now youse kan make a strocer,get adgustements an gooder shoks an raze wid 8" tirez at 2100 ponds.Iffin youse kant go fast wid dis,threz no hop.Letz se wat Tunder Hill doze wid dem minnies den ask whye.

Disclaimer::::::Im just having fun with Oldtimer,we go way back and he still hasent learned. :lol:

Ultimately the track will decide the rules as they always have.The bigest complaint I hear is about the constant changes always wanted by and usually recieved by people who dont even race here.Let the active racers decide.Give the RWD what they need but unlike the Obama process dont take it from someone who has earned it.

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DAMN GB I KNOW I AINT THAT BAD .HELL IF I WERE. I SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO MAKE HEADS OR TAILS OUT OF IT ...MAN YOU NEED TOGET OFF THAT JUICE YOUR DRINKING ....I LEARNED ONE THING ..TO BE A PAIN IN YOUR BLANK ..LOL ..GB YOU WILL SEE THE TWO J.S .. FIGURE THAT ONE OUT ..THEY WANT SOME THUMPER FOOD ..

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hmmm.... how is it that Tim Ej and myself could run with the fwd drives but yet none of yall can. we werent "BIG" money racers we went out and got sponsors. but even then we had to run stock suspension. i think all yall RWD guys just need to learn how to drive..... and slowing down the FWD is just going to make it harder on there equipment and cost them more.

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I will chime in on this one since I'm soo tired of the BS that goes on with ministock racing. First off there is no car or team that will beat GB he can run with the Super Streets and compete or if not win. Sure there is a few that have beat him my brother was one of them in 02 Gb I'm sure you remember the old 65 pinto. Gb sure knows how to put on a show and sometimes let people win. For some reason he (GB) has not won a championship yet, but I do know he has missed a few races here and there. But I guarantee you that this past year previous CC champions could not even get a straight a way close to him (not taking anything away from them) past champions that is. Secondly, weight jacks will be no advantage for them it will be just a faster adjustment. Looks like the future in ministocks are imports you can take a stock import (Honda, Volks, Neons, etc....) and be able to compete with a Ford that has anywhere from 5 to 8k in there motor. GB, and Will have done it. And it's happening up north just check on 4m.net all the Ford guys are complaining that the imports are spanking there high $$$$$ Big E motors. Bottom line if your bag is 4cyl. ministock race a stock import its cheaper. I am not being biased hell I own a Ford ministock. This is why I'm trying to get out of it, and I'm sure that's why Bruce (poorboy) got out of it.

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