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A Message from Jim Knudtson and I-37 Raceway


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Posted at the request of Jim Knudtson:

 

During a telephone conversation with the IMCA offices today, I-37 Raceway Track Director Jim Knudtson happened to ask if any of the tracks and series had open forums like the ones we have on Texas Speed Zone and some other sites. They said, in effect, no. According to IMCA, they used to have forums, but every time the forum was eventually hijacked by a few posters who wanted to vent their anger at tracks, series, other drivers, fans, you name it.

Worse, these people weren't polite in their disagreements, but wanted to use profanity and personal attacks in their "arguments." We've seen a few sites in Texas get taken down by this kind of attitude, and Texas Speed Zone itself has seen some rocky times. Fortunately for us, both Jason (who originated the Texas Speed Zone) and Nick (who has been the moderator and usually a voice of moderation himself) have usually been not too far apart in their idea of what a good forum should be.

As the Media Relations guy for I-37 Raceway, I worry about these things as well. In a technical age when we need to put our best behavior to the fore to use the power of the Internet to help "grow" short track racing, both pavement and dirt, we are already seeing posts that would convince anyone not involved in racing that we are the yahoos the media likes to portray us as.

Due to what has happened in other parts of the country, there aren't many forums in many of the busiest short-track racing areas. Sure, they can be a valuable way to communicate with drivers and fans and exchange information, but in the long run they are and cause more trouble than they are worth. Other areas have already met this problem and solved it: no forums.

In part as a result of his conversation with IMCA, Knudtson is asking Nick Holt to pull the I-37 Raceway forum site from the Texas Speed Zone web site. Not because the posts to the site have gotten out of hand, because they haven't. Yet. And it's that "yet" that is prompting him to take this action, to remove the site before some potential fan or driver or sponsor looks at the site (check our ads, and you'll see we are directing them to it) and decides to do something else with their money and spare time.

We'll still be able to post information about the track and upcoming events, but there won't be the cross-talk of mostly reasonable ideas and suggestions. Our drivers, crews and fans will still be able to call us for information (Cassie Hunter insisted we say she'll still be available by phone and internet), but it won't be the lively but polite back-and-forth discussion that such forums usually present in the beginning.

That's too bad. Heck, even the United States Senate has learned to disagree without being disagreeable, and look at what an obnoxious group of blowhards many of them are. I always thought Texans were a lot more polite.

 

T. Q. Jones, Media Director, I-37 Raceway, (512) 261-5236

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I will comply with your request to remove the I-37 forum from the list on the main discussion page.

 

I'm sorry if I have somehow let your track down, but I have to walk a pretty tricky path between editing too much and not editing enough. On one hand you have the tracks who want everything to be positive and putting the best possible light on their operation. On the other hand you have race team members and fans who call me every name in the book because I don't let them bash or use TXSZ as their own personal soap box every time they are upset with a call or whatever. It's really very frustrating trying to be fair to all concerned.

 

That being said, everyone needs to realize that just because there will no longer be a dedicated I-37 forum, does not mean that I-37 issues cannot be discussed in the main forum area.

 

 

Now that the forum is to be removed will anybody be allowed to talk about the track under the Texas Auto Racing forum?

Yes, racing topics are discussed in the Texas Auto Racing forum. Since I-37 is a race track, compliments, announcements, discussions regarding that fast-improving facility are welcome there.

 

Nick

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Just because a "track site" is removed doesn't mean the B/S will stop.......quite the contrary. With hardly anyone ever getting on here just to make a "positive" post, only the negative ones will find there way onto the places available. The people that want to start shit will....just wherever they can, instead of one specific area.

 

This is like cutting off your nose to spite your face......

 

I've been around racing forums for a long freaking time....the B/S NEVER stops!!!! You think this racing site is bad.......you should have read the stuff on IMCA's site.....or go read stuff on whowon or elbowsup. You have to be better than they are and let the B/S roll off......or you might be in the wrong business!!!!

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Removing a free method of advertising and communication because there someday might be somebody who could say something offensive and/or inflamatory about the track.....brilliant. :blink:

 

The people associated with our sport who are hell bent to make us all look bad will always find a way to spread their discontent. Best of luck trying to thwart that I-37.

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Just because a "track site" is removed doesn't mean the B/S will stop.......quite the contrary. With hardly anyone ever getting on here just to make a "positive" post, only the negative ones will find there way onto the places available. The people that want to start shit will....just wherever they can, instead of one specific area.

 

This is like cutting off your nose to spite your face......

 

I've been around racing forums for a long freaking time....the B/S NEVER stops!!!! You think this racing site is bad.......you should have read the stuff on IMCA's site.....or go read stuff on whowon or elbowsup. You have to be better than they are and let the B/S roll off......or you might be in the wrong business!!!!

 

That is as true of a statement that I have read. Funny about the things they took as a bash against the track were merely questions and concerns that drivers had. Now grant you when the posted issues wouldnt get answered and left out there as a question thats when it turned from a question to a problem. To bad they couldnt use it as a tool to help solve problems instead of taking everything as a personal attack against them.

 

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Apparently it is better to let all of those parties who would otherwise be attracted to the track invest their money and time in blissful ignorance of what they are about to encounter, and then once they are too committed to back out, thats when they should get their rude awakening!

 

Another point - Are the forum readers at large well served by having I-37 posts mixed into the general discussion? I would think the forum would want, for it's own sake, to preserve the separation. The track can certainly choose not to participate, but I think they are being unreasonable in trying to tell TXSZ how to run it's business. I doubt if Nick is on the phone to I-37 interfering in affairs that are properly theirs.

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Im very sorry to hear that two of the tracks have requested to be removed from txsz. But I can understand it. I am just as guilty of using this site in a negative way. It cost me several friends because of those actions. That is why I have been staying in the shadows here of late. There will never be a perfect "FORUM". TXSZ is one of the better ones. We humans do and say things that we later regret. Hopefully in time we can get back to the way it use to be. I wish I-37 and STS all the best. :(

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no joke. how did i-37 asking tsz to remove their section, become nick's doing? usually a business wants all the publicity it can get, especially free publicity. of coarse there is always someone who isnt happy that will vent their feelings anyway they can, anywhere they can. taking away the i-37 forum wont stop the negativity at all. i have seen people start trash in the classifieds section, so it wont make a difference to remove it or not.

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When Jeff Gorden was winning a lot he got booed.His philosiphy was the best Ive heard." I dont care if they boo or cheer as long as they respond.Its the silence thats deafening."Without responses its like Michale Waldrep saying "Im on the wrong track"

[edited out by Nick Holt, 3/26/08]

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I am removing/editing a few posts in this thread that are apparently a continuation of an ongoing feud between certain individuals who don't see eye-to-eye.

 

Nick

THAT REALLY SUCKS BUT I CAN UNDERSTAND FOR A FEW BAD APPLES WE ALL HAVE TO PAY THE PRICE WHAT REALLY SUCKS IS THEY WILL FIND ANOTHER WAY TO COMPLAIN I HOPE I-37 CAN WORK SOMETHING OUT I KNOW NICKS JOB IS TOUGH ALSO JUST WISH THEY ALL COULD COME TO SORT OF TERMS TO KEEP IT OPEN BUT I UNDERSTAND I KNOW IT WAS CAUSE I USED MY CAPS BUTTON WRONG BUT IM SORRY

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Its easier to fight a bad story with good stories... Its a tracks job to promote its image, If you hide issues from the public, they become bigger problems then if you show your human...

 

If the track wants to change the publicity angle do so.. Push good stories, Bike give aways, Easter Candy with Kids, Helping local businesses, Drivers standing out in the community..

 

Just like there are negitive people that stir the pot, there are & they need to step up to the light People doing good.. & they need to boast about it...

 

Use drama to promote the Good too... Example.. nobody wants to read about slot car results... but when i post a topic that is catchy & apears to have drama, with a link to results... Ton's of people read it but don't respond to it... All in all GOOD for STS & What Terry is doing, but Used what sells to the advantage..

 

Sorry but removing forums is a bad idea, & i won't be shocked to find them re-appear after too long.

 

Aaron

JRA Kids Club

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I hope you're right, Aaron.

 

As I've mentioned before, it's an impossible task to balance the needs of the tracks and their sponsors with the needs of the racers and fans. Just as difficult is trying to deal with the personal fueds between teams and tracks. I've tried to reach some sort of middle ground, but in reality, it's not satifactory to either side.

 

Kinda like the math professor who was out big game hunting. There was a big bear on the far left of him and a very similar big bear to the far right of him. Having worked with averages for years, he aimed about half way in between the two bears, fired and proudly announced, "There! Got him dead center."

 

The bears, of course, proceded to have the professor for lunch in spite of his following the proper rules for finding averages. I think I understand that situation...

 

Nick

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(bear) with me this is a little long,

In reading all this a lot comes to mind, it seems everyone feels removing the forums is a bad decision on the tracks part and that somehow TSZ is the answer to all the tracks problems. Both tracks know there will always be complainers and people that have problems with one track or another, these are obvious facts that need not be pointed out.

But to allow this to happen in a place that your business head lines the topic is not good business. Quote SS99 "Removing a free method of advertising and communication because there someday might be somebody who could say something offensive and/or inflammatory about the track.....brilliant." Sure Brilliant, kill the snake before it kills you, when Free advertising and communication turns into a negative free for all it has very little value to a business. Does anyone realize it is a business? Did anyone realize that Wal Mart does not have a forum for their business? Reb, the BS will never stop - it might not but if your business is being affected by all the negativity in one location why allow it to continue? Communication is important no doubt but when you communicate and it turns into nothing but negativity about your business then it is not helping. On the payout issue a simple comment "Hey I-37 please let us know when the purse is going to change" would have been sufficient. Had the purse gone up no one would have said a word probably. Did Cassie not ask everyone that was concerned to call?

What is wrong with a phone call? Bobby no one is trying to lead sheep into a pin to slaughter them put pure and simple a mistake was made and everyone knows that so call the promoters of each track before going to that track to see if they will do as their website says they will.

Quote bobby "The track can certainly choose not to participate, but I think they are being unreasonable in trying to tell TXSZ how to run it's business." Who's being unreasonable? No one is telling TSZ how to run its business if the track was then I think the dirt tracks might have some real issues with TSZ. Is it unreasonable for TSZ to promote asphalt racing ahead of dirt? Look at the front page top of the upcoming events is an asphalt track that is not even running this weekend, then it list all the other asphalt tracks before it gets to the dirt tracks. Now look at tracks at the top of the page what tracks are listed? Asphalt... Now look at which tracks have been on TSZ the longest and which tracks have the most topics and replies. Interesting, Now I go look at TSZ and I see no advertising for any track sponsor whether they be asphalt or dirt, I go to the tracks websites and first thing that pops up is sponsor information. So is a track sponsor better served going to the STS fan forum on their website passing right by his / her business name of coming to TSZ?

Bottom line the tracks have to function like a business if they want to survive, communication through phone calls and a website is plenty; a forum is not a must have neither is TSZ! One thing that is interesting is Jim said in TQ's write up that he talked to IMCA about the forum, that is commendable, call your tracks sanctioning body and ask their thoughts after all they are the largest short track sanctioning body in the country. Good or bad decision only time will tell but don't crucify track promoters for trying to give everyone a place to race because NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE ON THIS SITE SAYS, WE CAN ALL RACE WITHOUT TSZ BUT WE CAN NOT RACE WITHOUT RACE TRACKS! NICK I THOUGHT THE BULLET RICOCHETED OF A TREE AND GOT BOTH BEARS AND THE WIZARD?...............SEEYA

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If a mistake was made it is the tracks responsibility to own up to it like professionals and adults. To try to remedy the problem by blaming it on those on the receiving end is an insult to everyone's intelligence. The discussions have all been quite quite reasonable and civil, especially by racing standards. It is the track representatives who have decided to elevate this to "an issue".

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(bear) with me this is a little long,

In reading all this a lot comes to mind, it seems everyone feels removing the forums is a bad decision on the tracks part and that somehow TSZ is the answer to all the tracks problems. Both tracks know there will always be complainers and people that have problems with one track or another, these are obvious facts that need not be pointed out.

But to allow this to happen in a place that your business head lines the topic is not good business. Quote SS99 "Removing a free method of advertising and communication because there someday might be somebody who could say something offensive and/or inflammatory about the track.....brilliant." Sure Brilliant, kill the snake before it kills you, when Free advertising and communication turns into a negative free for all it has very little value to a business. Does anyone realize it is a business? Did anyone realize that Wal Mart does not have a forum for their business? Reb, the BS will never stop - it might not but if your business is being affected by all the negativity in one location why allow it to continue? Communication is important no doubt but when you communicate and it turns into nothing but negativity about your business then it is not helping. On the payout issue a simple comment "Hey I-37 please let us know when the purse is going to change" would have been sufficient. Had the purse gone up no one would have said a word probably. Did Cassie not ask everyone that was concerned to call?

What is wrong with a phone call? Bobby no one is trying to lead sheep into a pin to slaughter them put pure and simple a mistake was made and everyone knows that so call the promoters of each track before going to that track to see if they will do as their website says they will.

Quote bobby "The track can certainly choose not to participate, but I think they are being unreasonable in trying to tell TXSZ how to run it's business." Who's being unreasonable? No one is telling TSZ how to run its business if the track was then I think the dirt tracks might have some real issues with TSZ. Is it unreasonable for TSZ to promote asphalt racing ahead of dirt? Look at the front page top of the upcoming events is an asphalt track that is not even running this weekend, then it list all the other asphalt tracks before it gets to the dirt tracks. Now look at tracks at the top of the page what tracks are listed? Asphalt... Now look at which tracks have been on TSZ the longest and which tracks have the most topics and replies. Interesting, Now I go look at TSZ and I see no advertising for any track sponsor whether they be asphalt or dirt, I go to the tracks websites and first thing that pops up is sponsor information. So is a track sponsor better served going to the STS fan forum on their website passing right by his / her business name of coming to TSZ?

Bottom line the tracks have to function like a business if they want to survive, communication through phone calls and a website is plenty; a forum is not a must have neither is TSZ! One thing that is interesting is Jim said in TQ's write up that he talked to IMCA about the forum, that is commendable, call your tracks sanctioning body and ask their thoughts after all they are the largest short track sanctioning body in the country. Good or bad decision only time will tell but don't crucify track promoters for trying to give everyone a place to race because NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE ON THIS SITE SAYS, WE CAN ALL RACE WITHOUT TSZ BUT WE CAN NOT RACE WITHOUT RACE TRACKS! NICK I THOUGHT THE BULLET RICOCHETED OF A TREE AND GOT BOTH BEARS AND THE WIZARD?...............SEEYA

 

 

I understand what you are saying here, but please let me clarify some things that need clarifying.

 

1) Every track that is listed in the forum section requested their own forum section at one time or another. We do not list tracks that do not wish to be listed. I have written to every dirt track in Texas twice - yes, all the dirt tracks except STS and I-37 who were already sending me their results, etc. - and asked them to provide results, releases and other information on TXSZ. As part of that invitation I also asked if they would like a TXSZ forum section for their track. Two or three of them did respond to my invitation and have been added.

 

2) The tracks in the forum area are listed in alphabetical order, not by order of my personal preference or anyone else's personal preference. In fact, an asphalt track is very near the bottom of the list.

 

3) The reason the upcoming events has the tracks in that order is because that's the order they were in when I finally dared to learn enough HTML to keep the upcoming events updated. The reason they stay in that order is that I struggle mightily with HTML and tend to mess up the entire front page when I try to move things around.

 

4) You are dead wrong to assume that I am anti-dirt and pro-asphalt. I cut my racing teeth on the dirt (1961) and have always been a dirt fan. I was 17 at the time and had to lie about my whereabouts to my parents in order to race. We raced on Sunday afternoons. I loved it and have always loved it. To me it's a whole lot more fun than running asphalt. In fact, when I drove my first asphalt race (1976 at Paramount Speedway in Austin) I jumped out, handed the helmet to my buddy and said, "Here, you drive." When I moved to Texas in 1971, there were no dirt tracks in the SA area so I was forced to go asphalt or travel. I am not prejudiced against the dirt tracks and anyone who says I am just doesn't know me very well.

 

4) Unfortunately, most dirt tracks do not provide TXSZ with information. J.M. Hallas has found ways to obtain a great deal of information from some of the dirt tracks which he publishes on TXSZ on a regular basis. On the other hand, THR and HMP have people who make sure TXSZ is supplied with current, positive information about their track. TXSZ does not have any paid staff so we can't "report" information that is not available to us.

 

5) The Wal-Mart comparison just plain doesn't work. Wal-Mart may not have their own forum, but all you need to do is run a Google search to find scores of websites, blogs, forums, etc. that are Wal-Mart centered. What do you think would happen if Wal-Mart emailed one of those site administrators and told them to remove their site because it was hurting their business? I try very hard to cooperate with all the tracks, but I also have to balance my moderating with the interests of the racers and fans who want to be heard too. I understand that the tracks would love to have everything regarding their tracks on TXSZ to be positive and constructive, but in the racing world that just isn't reality.

 

6) The tracks listed at the top of the front page are in the same tracks that Jason put up when he first put the site up. I have no knowledge of how to even change any of it. I cannot hire someone to do it because I have no budget, do not own the site and do not get paid for any of the work I do here. Frankly, if you look around the front page you will find many, many areas that need upgrading or that or entirely obsolete. If you would like to help me straighten it all up I'd be glad for the help!

 

7) Advertising on TXSZ is open to all. I have no control over who chooses to advertise on TXSZ and who does not. Any advertising revenue goes directly to the site owner.

 

8) Finally, TXSZ is not in the race track promotion business. Race tracks are in the race track promotion business. I absolutely agree that the asphalt tracks do a much better job getting positive, ongoing information to TXSZ, but, as I have mentioned, I have asked the dirt tracks for information, releases, etc., with very little response. Those tracks that do me the stuff get it posted. And, of course, they are also free to post it themselves. Those that don't.. well, obviously they are not interested in using TXSZ to promote their tracks, which is their right.

 

You do make some good points though and I appreciate your input.

 

Nick

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Its easier to fight a bad story with good stories... Its a tracks job to promote its image, If you hide issues from the public, they become bigger problems then if you show your human...

rainbows and roses- you can't make sh^t smell like momas apple pie.

if you don't want bad press then don't bring it upon yourself,,,,,,and then when it does come don't blame the outlet that gave the advantage of genuine advertisement. blame it on poor decisions.

notifying people of the pay out cut would have been smart.

nobody should beg or apologize to try and make you remain with this board , you never once apologized or explained the reasoning behind and for the pay cut. some people are gonna say "it's their track and their business is none of ours.." i beg to differ , we are their business. anybody that brings a car to a track deserves atleast that lttle bit of respect from the track operators.

just my two cents

 

it's kinda like sweeping dirt under the rug......to disolve your relationship with TSZ does not make your issues disappear.

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17 People reading this message right now... I37 is alive & 17 people know it.

 

Here's another example:

 

Anyone Watch 8Mile? Rabbit beat "Papadoc" in the end by telling the story first...

I think Rabbit's Final words were "Go Ahead, Tell these people something they don't already know about me"

Papadoc had nothing to stir the pot with cuzz Everything "Contraversial" was already hanging on on the Laundry Line...

Hollywood... but applies...

 

Track Breaks the news, Issue dies quick, Someone stirs the pot with the news Track has nightmares..

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