LM Rules

[Pacecar]

I'm confused on the interpretation of the LM rules.

 

I realize that crate-motored Super Late Model chassis cars get a 150 lb weight break (way too much in my opinion, especially if the crate is running the newest allowed carb spacer, 1.6 rockers, tri-Y or Iron Lung headers). But reading the SAS LM rule book, I understood that any crate-motored SLM still needed to comply with the other provision in the rulebook such as:

 

Rear spoiler not to exceed 5" tall (vs. 6.5" tall for ASA).

 

55% left side weight for offset chassis (vs. 59% for ASA).

 

Minimum wheelbase 105" (vs. 102" for ASA).

 

OEM Style Transmission with all gears operational (vs. Bert or Brinn 2-speeds straight-cut gears for ASA).

 

Steel driveshaft (vs. aluminum driveshaft allowed in ASA).

 

No torque absorber links in rear control arms (vs. torque absorber links in ASA).

 

No cambered rear ends (vs. cambered rears allowed in ASA).

 

 

Rules are written to establish a level playing field, and to inform ALL competitors (in writing) of what configurations are legal.

[Barker Racing7]

In my opinion the rules have gotten way out of hand ever since they threw out the nascar rule book. The intention being to draw cars from other racing series and tracks, but all it really did is give people with money an advantage to build a car superior to what the Nascar legal cars were capable of doing. Instead of drawing cars, it ran off the people with these type of cars because it made it to hard to compete. Its hard enough to compete against money when every car is built to the same rules (but when there is an advantage to a certain type of car, people with big sponsors or alot of money are going to take advantage of it). I guess the solution now is for everyone to build an ASA car. There is plenty of resources and money for everyone to do that. RIGHT!!!!

 

It appears as if there are alot of rule infractions that the track needs to address or more drivers/owners may decide its not worth the effort or money to race. Good job Larry for stirring up the pot.

 

p.s. There was a communication problem between #80 and his spotter so why didn't the track take action against the serious blocking? Everybody knows I will try my best not to wreck myself or anyone else, but people can only take so much and eventually contact will be made. Its not worth the risk of losing 2 cars because ZERO effort by the track officials to stop those actions.

 

No disrespect to Lloyd, he did a great job of driving and setting the fast time .

Congratulations to the#115 team for the win.

[REBELRACER]

maybe they dont want to chase off any cars right now until they get a decent turn out for the lm class......

[krusty_rusty]

we finally got the car setup right we weren't that much faster than other cars, and all i here is crying from everybody. nobody was complaining last year when we weren't fast, we win one race and the world is coming to a end, give me a freaking break its one race.

[krusty_rusty]

we were 55% on left side

[racer61]

hhhmmmm, lets build a new car this year too for a different set of rules. yep thats keeping cost down. instead of one 20 thousand dollar car we have 3 15 thousand dollar cars. Oh yah, and had to build an addition onto the garage to house them all. Yep, were saving money now.

[mudpacker]

If it is not written in the rules, how are people supposed to know about it? Just show up and they will let you run I guess. Krusty Rusty, why dont you give the guys a break who worked in the offseason to build or rebuild a car within the rules and they show up and have to race in a race that they cant win because the unwritten rules have changed again.

[ups88john]

i understand the concern with the rules, we were 55% left side, no torque absorber, no camber in the rear end, we did have a alum driveshaft, 2 speed tranny, and a 6.5" spoiler and 102" wb. we qualified at a 19.04, far off of the track record, and were running times in the race about the same as joe. i think joe ran a 19.2 in qualifying and robert's car looked pretty good till it crashed. if the rules are so messed up then the track needs to tell us not to race. what i dont understand is no one gets mad when joe and barker run off and leave the rest of the field in the dust, but we show up LEGAL and win and now there is no way anyone can run with a crate motor. ive seen joe run some 18.80's and 90's as well as barker. i guess if we run the crate we should be 3500 lbs, 40% left side, allison tranny and a 18 wheeler drive shaft. oh yea 112 in wb boat chassis. how come last year when we qualified at a 19.60 yall didnt step up and say these rules are wrong, that crate motor asa car is gonna win every race. i also understand this is not a personal attack on lloyd or me or the team, but its kinda hard to listen to all the complaining and not get mad. we did our job at the shop, lloyd did his job in the car and arthur did his job buy outspending every other crate motor car out there, oh yea we were the only one.

 

 

big john

[REBELRACER]

is allen gonna run the sportsman at all this year, or is he just going to run in the late model class? that sportsman was pretty fast last season........is he not running a crate motor in his late model? congrats to lloyd and crew on the win.........

[ups88john]

the sportsman is taking a back seat for right now, we may bring it out later this year. thanks.

 

big john

[racer61]

i understand the concern with the rules, we were 55% left side, no torque absorber, no camber in the rear end, we did have a alum driveshaft, 2 speed tranny, and a 6.5" spoiler and 102" wb. we qualified at a 19.04, far off of the track record, and were running times in the race about the same as joe. i think joe ran a 19.2 in qualifying and robert's car looked pretty good till it crashed. if the rules are so messed up then the track needs to tell us not to race. what i dont understand is no one gets mad when joe and barker run off and leave the rest of the field in the dust, but we show up LEGAL and win and now there is no way anyone can run with a crate motor. ive seen joe run some 18.80's and 90's as well as barker. i guess if we run the crate we should be 3500 lbs, 40% left side, allison tranny and a 18 wheeler drive shaft. oh yea 112 in wb boat chassis. how come last year when we qualified at a 19.60 yall didnt step up and say these rules are wrong, that crate motor asa car is gonna win every race. i also understand this is not a personal attack on lloyd or me or the team, but its kinda hard to listen to all the complaining and not get mad. we did our job at the shop, lloyd did his job in the car and arthur did his job buy outspending every other crate motor car out there, oh yea we were the only one.

 

 

big john

i hear this so much from lots of people at lots of tracks. I dont think that the asa rules or the 123 rules or the 1982 austin speed-o-rama rules are the best but if changing the rules to make something less expensive compete eliminates what the majority of the competition is already using than its not a good idea, or cost effective. I agree w/ ya big john. I just wish ALL of these tracks would quit trying to look out for our(the racers) best interest. Let us decide where we want to spend our money, and what series we want to run in.

Good luck to you guys.

[Ford27]

so was 115 running an asa package or was it pieced meal part sas rules /part asa rules...

btw...congrats on the win

can we run an asa package?

[ups88john]

asa rules at san antonio weight per rick day.

 

big john

[mudpacker]

cool, now we get to see a bunch of new cars. The guys have a couple of weeks to go buy them and get them ready.

[bubbac]

I used to go to every race at SAS. Haven't been able to due to health reasons. So I used to look forward to TXSZ for results and info about the races. I'm losing interest altogether. I am biased because my son is heavily involved in racing (due to his following his dad around in the past).

 

But they win one race and the world is coming to an end. I can only guess that Joe and Robert have run out of ways to make their cars better. Or is money an issue. Congratulations again to Alexander Racing and my son Big John. If HMP is the only place to race, so be it.

 

I am only a fan of racing and have taken a liking to the RR & GS group. This seems to be real racing to me, not the big money of the late models.

Lets dump the LM's and all the bickering might go away.

 

As far as I can tell, my last post got deleted. I guess that I am in that special group of people now.

 

Rupert Claridge (aka Bubbac)

[Barker Racing7]

Robert's wife Stephanie talking here......I'm not trying to cause trouble, but couldn't help myself to post a reply.

 

"Barker running out of ways to get the car better." Robert works his butt off and has supported SAS for years. Had he not wrecked his car in practice, he probably would have been able to run with Lloyd. Money has always been an issue for Barker racing, but he has accomplished a lot on the limited budget he's had. Robert ended up racing his old car in the main event since he wrecked his car in practice. He probably could have finished better than 5th, had Lloyd's brother not blocked him for about 20 laps. You can verify this info with the Alexander pit crew-was supposively a communication problem, I guess he didn't have a mirror in his car.

 

Like Mudpaker said, give the guys some respect who worked hard during the offseason to build or rebuild their cars to follow the rules. This isn't an issue against Lloyd. Robert likes Lloyd and respects him. This is an issue with the track and the rules and it's been an issue for years (not just this year).

 

 

Stephanie Barker

[mudpacker]

Maybe if someone can produce tangible evidence that you could run under ASA rules, people would quit compalining. It looks like other people dont know how to make their cars faster so they run under a different set of rules than the rest.

[ups88john]

stepahnie, allen actually does not have a mirror in his car, for one reason and one reason only. his spotter was on the right channel for the first 5 laps, then somehow he changed channels on the radio. i was on lloyds channel most of the race and was flipping back to allen every 5 laps or so. there was also another crew member on allens channel who didnt realize doug was on the wrong channel. my appoliges to robert and team, i made the call for allen to let robert go about lap 30 and i watched his spotter push the button and tell him, problem was he was on the wrong channel. trust me the last thing i want to do is wreck my car the firt night its on the track. allen said he felt robert the last 2 laps before he got dumped, but he didnt know that robert was being way too nice the last 20 laps or so. i think allen and doug went and talked to robert after the race and explained the problem.

 

big john

[Barker Racing7]

Big John,

 

Thanks for explaining the situation. Hopefully it won't happen again. I guess last weeks race is over and it is just time to move on to the next. Of course I'll root for Robert, but I hope everybody races a good clean race.

 

Stephanie

[ups88john]

i can promise you it will not happen again. i take partial responsibility for not switching over and telling him myself, but it is done, lets move on.

 

big john

[Joe Aramendia]

I will try and only state facts and keep my opinions out.

 

Rules are made to keep the field even, if you work hard, do your home work, get good help, you can run up front. The rule book not only states what you can run, it states what you will run against. When a team is allowed to run modifications that other teams are not allowed, that team has a very large advantage.

 

Engine

 

ASA cars run crate engines that make appox. 415hp - 435 hp for Chevy and more for a Ford.

 

Late model engines make appox. 415 hp - 440 hp for Chevy and more for a Ford

 

The advantage goes to the ASA/crate engine. Here is why; The crate engine has aluminum heads that are approximately 40 lbs. lighter than steel. this weight can be put on the car where it is needed most. And about 18”-24” lower.

SAS late models have steel heads

 

Carburetors

 

ASA crate engine has 650 cfm. 4 barrel carburetor

 

SAS late model has 500 cfm 2 barrel carburetor.

 

The advantage goes to ASA/crate engine. Here is why; The 4 barrel carburetor will make the car accelerate much faster getting

off the corner.

 

Ignition

 

ASA crate engines run MSD or equivalent with 6300 chip installed to restrict the rpm.

 

SAS late models run MSD or factory type with no restrictions on rpm’s, but the smaller carburetor keeps it from making much more than 7600 rpm

 

The Advantage goes to late model. Here is why; The more rpm you can make the higher gear you can run. This helps getting off the corner and down the straight. However, if a chip is not used or a higher rpm chip is used their would be no advantage to either.

 

Rear spoiler

 

ASA car is allowed a 6.5” spoiler

 

SAS late Model car is allowed a 5” spoiler

 

The advantage goes to ASA car, Here is why; The larger rear spoiler makes more down force for more rear traction.

 

 

Transmissions

 

ASA cars are allowed two speed Brin type transmissions with internal clutch

 

Late Models are only allowed 3 or 4 speed oem type transmissions with a minimum clutch size of 5”.

 

The (big) advantage goes to ASA car. Here is why; the Brin type transmission is much lighter, has an internal clutch, and much lighter rotating assembly. All of these things make the car much faster accelerating and decelerating.

 

Drive Shaft

 

ASA cars are allowed aluminum drive shafts

 

SAS late models must run steel drive shafts with a minimum diameter of 2 ½ inches

 

The advantage goes to ASA car, less rotating weight. (quicker to accelerate and decelerate)

 

Wheel base

 

ASA cars have a 102” wheel base.

 

SAS cars a minimum of 105”

 

Advantage goes to ASA car. Here is why;

The shorter the wheel base the faster the car will turn.

 

These are the rules that are most obvious to me, there my be more. I hope this sheds some light on the problem.

Also I was told that the ASA car is legal because “he said so” when I asked how it could be legal. And lastly the #79 and the #50 late models will no longer be racing at San Antonio Speedway in the late model class this year under these circumstances.

 

Joe Aramendia

[ramey60]

when i was a kid we had some spoiled brats in our naborhood that would pull stuff about like what joe's doing. i'm taking my toys and going home if u wont let me have my own way. waaaa waaaa waaaa

[Joe Aramendia]

when i was a kid we had some spoiled brats in our naborhood that would pull stuff about like what joe's doing. i'm taking my toys and going home if u wont let me have my own way. waaaa waaaa waaaa

 

If following the rules and doing my best to support racing in San Antonio is being spoiled then so be it. I'll take them where the playing field is level.

 

Joe Aramendia

no hidding here!

[HORSEPOWER]

Obviously there is some problems with the rules and that is the big issue here. Hopefully they get resolved soon. I don't think any fan, new or the regular, will want to see 5 or 6 late models racing. 10 late models isn't a good car count at all. Yes having 16 Road Runners is great, but will these racers have a place to race in the future. Pretty soon, SAS will just become a special events track or end up closing the doors. Thanks to all the racers who bust there ass all week and field a car.

[97car]

Ok then lets go to ASA type rules and work with Houston then since they had 23 carsshow up to race,and 9 or 10 cars in the Alamo 200 are local Texas drivers beats the same 10 cars running 40 laps and complaining when a guy wins one race,but nothing was said when the other guys dominated each year. I guess the local late models will soon become yard art with that attitude. Promoters might decide it is no longer worth the BS the guys spout off and drop the class all together.