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My point is you might get more support

for your ideas if we knew what they were.Years ago they asked for suggestions & I went thru the rules & just tried to ELIMINATE 'grey' areas.I was accused of trying to take over & write the rules in my favor. GB is not unbeatable but he does know what he's doing.He has been beat by rwd's & I think it can be done again. I'm not ready to just give the trophy to him yet!

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it say stock springs that came in the car your driving .. if you try and race with those you will eat up the right rear up snd wont be able to hold the turns

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Pappy, you have several good points. The way I see it, we already had 21 cars signed up (now probably less). How many more cars in one class can line up on a 1/4 mile track. As attrition has happened there have been "new" guys every year come along. Which is awesome. Lets include everybody and go racin'. Along the way, lets get paid what we're worth for the car count, and use the money to build better cars.

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Pappy,you and your grey aeras are a pain.Now I have to put 3rd and 4th gears back in my transaxle.You have cost me almost a tenth of a second.You always do something like this.If you wernt such a great showman for the fans I would get mad at you.Score one for Pappy.

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OK GUYS HERE IT IS IN A NUT SHELL. AT THE GENERAL DRIVER'S MEETING DAN SAID THAT HE WANTED TO CLOSE UP ALL THE GRAY AREAS IN THE RULES: MY SUGGESTION WAS TO MEET WITH EACH CLASS SEPERATELY TO REVISE THE RULES AND THAT HAPPENED BUT I DONT REALLY THINK IT WAS ANY ADVANTAGE TO DRIVE ALL THE WAY OVER TO A BAR TO HASH OUT RULES (IN THE PAST WE MET AT THE TRACK ON A SUNDAY AFTERNOON AND IT WORKED) BUT, ANYWAY WE ASKED DOC IF IT WOULD BE ALRIGHT TO TYPE UP OUR TEAM'S THOUGHTS AND SUGGESTIONS AND HE SAID OK BUT, THEN THEY BOTH FELT THAT PEOPLE WOULD TAKE IT AS FAVORITISM AND WANTED TO KEEP IT A SECRET OR SOMETHING I GUESS.?. WE EVEN ASKED TO MEET WITH THEM PRIOR TO THE MEETING TO EXPLAIN OUR POSITION OF THE RULES WE SUGGESTED SO THAT THE TEXAS THUNDER CLASS WOULD CONTINUE TO GROW BUT, THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN! ONE HOUR BEFORE THE MEETING DOC CALLS ME AND SAID THEY HAD DECIDED TO NOT CHANGE ANY OF THE TEXAS THUNDER RULES SO THEY HAD THIER MINDS MADE UP BEFORE THE MEETING EVER STARTED. HECK THE ONLY REASON A FEW MINOR CHANGES WAS MADE WAS PROBABLY DUE TO US WALKING OUT, WE WAS NOT TRYING TO HIDE ANYTHING OR DO ANTHING UNETHICAL, ANYBODY AT THAT FIRST MEETING COULD OF ASKED DOC TO DO JUST WHAT WE DID.

THEN AT THE MEETING LAST NIGHT DAN OPENED BY SAYING I ORINGINALLY WROTE THE TEXAS THUNDERS RULES AND CALLED VARIOUS DRIVERS (and qoute) LIKE GB SO IT WAS OK TO THAT BUT NOT OK TO BRING A COPY OF THE CHANGES WE PROPOSED AND WHEN I ASKED HIM ABOUT THE CHANGES WE PROPOSED HE FLAT OUT SAID (and qoute) I DONT BELIEVE ANY OF THAT!NOW IF HE WOULD OF SAID LETS ALL TALK ABOUT IT THEN WE WOULD NOT HAVE WALKED OUT.

THEY CLAIM THEY WANT TO KEEP COST DOWN,WELL ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT IS JUST LIKE ANYBODY COULD HAVE APPROACHED DOC THE WAY WE DID, ANYBODY CAN GO OUT AND GET SPONSORS LIKE WE HAVE IN THE PAST.

I'M NOT SAYING IT WAS ALL JUST BECAUSE OF OUR TEAM THAT THE TEXAS THUNDER CLASS HAS REALLY GROWN BUT I WILL SAY THIS, OUR FAMILY PUT A TEAM TOGETHER THAT FINALLY GAVE GB AND THE OTHER FWD CARS COMPETITION AND PUT ON SOME GOOD RACES FOR THE FANS!

[edited out by Nick Holt. 1/30/06]

I WILL CLOSE WITH THIS LAST STATEMENT WHEN I MADE THE COMMENT LAST NIGHT ABOUT WHY DIDN'T THE TEXAS THUNDER CLASS GET PAID EQUALY AS THE OTHER CLASSES, [edited out by Nick Holt, 1/30/06] REPLIED BY SAYING PEOPLE REALLY DON'T COME OUT TO WATCH THE TEXAS THUNDER CLASS AS REAL RACING LIKE THE SUPER STREET CLASS...........................................................................

.YOU FIGURE IT OUT!

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This is the same thing almost every year with minis. There is such a difference in the cars that it is real tough to have a set of rules. Why not leave the rules exactly the same as last year and possibly add weight based on weekly performance or average weekly performance. Face it not every front wheel drive can keep up either. I mean look at Rick Russel (sorry Rick just a joke). But what I mean is if Will wins a couple in a row or just smokes the feild , then add 25 lbs. If the next week he finishes 6th remove the weight. This may sound stupid or drastic but trying to get the grey area out of mini stock rules would take something drastic.

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Im not giving Gb the trophy and but im not gonna be there to race him for it either. Im not takin anything from that track either. I love that track just choos not race there until things like weight rules and suspension can be change. My springs that i have ran for the past 2 years would be cheating to the manager.

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Gentlemen, gentlemen...

 

Let's cut the bashing and name calling please. I have deleted and edited several posts in this thread. TXSZ is not a bash site and things need to stay civil.

 

Also, if anyone has an issue with the track, they need to take it up with the track.

 

Thanks.

 

Nick Holt

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Poorboy, what you just said is the most logical post I have read in the last two days. I have seen this in road racing, and it works. I have not ever seen weight taken back off. I like this. You might be on to something. Neon will

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we would take up with the track but thats causing all this bashing. i mean i'll be the first to say some thing to the track manager. but all he is going to say is that he don't belive in that at all. so whats the use of doing that, when the track manager won't let you explain! but i'm with ford12 on the suspension and weight rules. those need to change. so we can have more then one night of good racing.

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we would take up with the track but thats causing all this bashing. i mean i'll be the first to say some thing to the track manager. but all he is going to say is that he don't belive in that at all. so whats the use of doing that, when the track manager won't let you explain! but i'm with ford12 on the suspension and weight rules. those need to change. so we can have more then one night of good racing.

We have had some great discussions about rules here in the CCMS forum site in the past. And there's no reason we can't have more great discussions about important issues in the future. But those discussions should not include bashing or expressing displeasure at track management or other people.

 

I am sorry that you feel that the track is not responsive to your input. But that does not mean we can then get on here and complain about the track management or other people. Keep the issues separate from the people.

 

Thanks.

 

Nick Holt

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front wheel drives do not people adding weight to them it slow's them down just ask gb what do the cars have tp weigh now is it a flat weight or is it by cc's

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Nick,I think I have figgured this deal out.Please let me explain.There have been a small groupe of cars that have been running illegal for at least a couple of years by their own admission.One won a championship.Past management did not teck the cars as completely as could have mainly because of lack of manpower.Dan has the reputation of upholding the rules without exception and Doc does not get involved in car legalities.With the new managemt,the illegal cars wanted to change the rules to match their cars.Doc and Dan were probably unaware of the cars being illegal,has watched the class grow with the existing rules and did not want to destroy the class by rewriting the rulebook.As you know,making major changes to existing rules in a class that has a great car count always hurts the count.There is a way for a groupe to gain consessions when the need is established like Pro Sedans do ever making adjustments to help competetion.In fact I campaigned for 2 changes to help Fords,allowing bigger carbs and racing fuel to help the engines last longer.They were blowing head gaskets because the little carbs would lean out and detonate.Likewise with the fuel.These cars with special concerns should have talked with the other racers and petetion for changes to the officials instead of trying to do it secretely and then insulting people.In fact it still can be done that way.For the ones that did do it that way,the management is working right now to find a way to meet the special needs without hurting the other competetors.Neil is probably the best at doing this but even he got condemmend by some of the same people.The people who got hurt by racing against illegal cars are the ones who got beat by them repeatedly.Its hard to beat an illegal car with a legal car in any division.I was also unaware of the illegal cars so I was against a re-write.I too watched the class grow and did not want to ruin it.If the rules had been strictly enforced this issue would not have come up.I know there will be a formula devised to allow the Pro Sedan cars who want to race with the Thunders to do so without affecting the Thunder rules.Just as Pro Sedans made consessions for Thunders to race Pro Sedans.As it stands now,Doc,Dan,and I are bad guys for wanting the growth to continue with the same rules for the last 5 years with only minor adjustments.And I dont have any more say so than any other driver.My friend is building a Mustang right now that I might drive so consessions could help me too.I just dont know what to ask for yet. G.B.Carter

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gb you are right neil is probally the best at trying to even out the cars . but i raced rwd's for years against you and horton now i dont know if there was any car illegal out there. but i do know its hard for a 2300 lbs car to race against a 1600lbs car. now the class has grown cause people love racing . but if the front wheel drives can weight 1600 lbs you need to give breaks for the rwd's either that or make all cars weigh 2050 lbs

Edited by cRt racing

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Nick,I think I have figgured this deal out.Please let me explain.There have been a small groupe of cars that have been running illegal for at least a couple of years by their own admission.One won a championship.Past management did not teck the cars as completely as could have mainly because of lack of manpower.Dan has the reputation of upholding the rules without exception and Doc does not get involved in car legalities.With the new managemt,the illegal cars wanted to change the rules to match their cars.Doc and Dan were probably unaware of the cars being illegal,has watched the class grow with the existing rules and did not want to destroy the class by rewriting the rulebook.As you know,making major changes to existing rules in a class that has a great car count always hurts the count.There is a way for a groupe to gain consessions when the need is established like Pro Sedans do ever making adjustments to help competetion.In fact I campaigned for 2 changes to help Fords,allowing bigger carbs and racing fuel to help the engines last longer.They were blowing head gaskets because the little carbs would lean out and detonate.Likewise with the fuel.These cars with special concerns should have talked with the other racers and petetion for changes to the officials instead of trying to do it secretely and then insulting people.In fact it still can be done that way.For the ones that did do it that way,the management is working right now to find a way to meet the special needs without hurting the other competetors.Neil is probably the best at doing this but even he got condemmend by some of the same people.The people who got hurt by racing against illegal cars are the ones who got beat by them repeatedly.Its hard to beat an illegal car with a legal car in any division.I was also unaware of the illegal cars so I was against a re-write.I too watched the class grow and did not want to ruin it.If the rules had been strictly enforced this issue would not have come up.I know there will be a formula devised to allow the Pro Sedan cars who want to race with the Thunders to do so without affecting the Thunder rules.Just as Pro Sedans made consessions for Thunders to race Pro Sedans.As it stands now,Doc,Dan,and I are bad guys for wanting the growth to continue with the same rules for the last 5 years with only minor adjustments.And I dont have any more say so than any other driver.My friend is building a Mustang right now that I might drive so consessions could help me too.I just dont know what to ask for yet. G.B.Carter

GB YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY WRONG AND I'AM VERY OFFENDED BY THIS STATEMENT.

I HAVE A RECEIPT FROM FORD MOTOR COMPANY FOR THE SPRINGS WE HAVE RAN FOR THE PAST 3 YEARS AND IF YOU WANT PROOF I WILL SCAN AND EMAIL YOU A COPY OF IT. AND IT WAS DOC WHOM APPROVED THE WRITTING OF SUGGESTIONS SO IF HE DOESNT GET INVOLVED THEN WHY DID HE APPROVE IT. YOU JUST DONT LIKE IT BECAUSE WE OUT SMARTED YOU AND BEAT YOU! SO YOU JUST STAY WITH CCMS AND WE WILL GO TO SOUTH TEXAS SPEEDWAY. SEE YA!

AND NICK I APOLOGIZE IF MY COMMENT ABOUT DAN MONROE WAS OFFENDING TO YOU BUT IT IS WHAT IT IS !

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how many people in this town can look at a spring that is not painted and tell if its a racing spring or a spring out of a junk yard besides allowing racing springs solves a lot of time and hassles

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Stephen,I agree with you.Nobody can tell a race spring from a stock spring unless its a taper or something special.I dont know why ford 12 said his springs are illegal.Racing shocks have hyme joints,racing struts have a threaded body coilover spring. And if they want all cars to weigh 2400#s they all should have 1800cc engines.And theres nothing banning DOHC engines.There are no rule changes other than the trans has to have all foreward gears now.And if you guys want an all Ford class,make it that way.You have the majority.Theres only 2 non Ford cars now,mine and the BMW.Oh yes,I dont likethe rubber mounts thing eather,its dangerious.Tell Frank if you see him to lay out what he wants or forget about it.Theres a lot of other Fords to consider too.Jessy and Chip will be racing as soon as they figguer out how to include them without opening the door for a Donnie Moore or someone like him who could use the rules to kill us all.

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GB you are a great driver and so are all three of my nephews and I hope my son will drive a race car just as good as all of you, But for you to say E.J. cheated to win His

Championship is wrong. He was there every race night, His engine blow up on a thursday night we as a team worked hard Friday & Saturday and put just an old

stock engine in so he would not miss a race. He drove and worked hard for his

Championship IT WAS A TEAM EFFERT NOT CHEATING .

 

Randy Smith

Team 6,12,20,& 21

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